Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion

[Yenn]

What do you mean, the game gives you no information about Allagan Rot? You read tooltips for Rot and Immunity, you notice it passes to other people, you realize it blows up when the timer reaches zero. How much more information do you need? Takes like 2-3 runs to figure out how it works then maybe another 2-3 runs to figure out how to deal with it. After that it's just about your gameplan and execution.

Doesn't compare to Twintania in the slightest.

You completely missed the point, and I'm not in any way comparing Twintania to ADS. I'm comparing the way SE is exposing mechanics in general; encounters are artificially made longer by requiring brute force to figure out mechanics, and converting a large portion of the skill requirement into 'bash your head against this until you understand how it works.'

Remember the first time you got Twintania to phase 4? You have no idea what the fuck is going on, and then you die to one of her abilities, and you still have no idea what that ability did.
You have to spend hours getting back to phase 4 and seeing the mechanics over and over, and then more time trying new things, until you actually understand what they do. Absolutely no hints are given.

You figure out what Allagan Rot does by wiping to it a few times. Nowhere does it make any sort of implication that it needs to be passed off or it will wipe your raid. This is bad design. There are literally zero clues.
What if your group is spread out and nobody accidentally touches during Rot? You're not going to have a single clue that it needs to be passed.

On our first two attempts, it just so happened that nobody with Rot touched anyone else, and due to the terrible UI, nobody noticed that it was passed off. We spent a few attempts figuring out where immunity comes from (being close to ADS? Standing on the glowing blue area on the floor? Being near a wall? Who knows?), and then realized that Rot was being passed around. The game give zero indicators that this is how the mechanic works.

Change the tool tip to add something like 'Allagan rot is contagious.' to hint that it can be passed to other party members, and the encounter is much more friendly.


Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.
If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

[vRoad]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works.

I find it pretty fun with the excitement of finally realizing what an ability does and what to do to counter it. Sort of like piecing the parts of a puzzle together.

In your case of Allagan Rot, I immediately connected it to the only mechanic that felt familiar when I noticed the immunity debuffs start popping up on our players (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=72865 / http://www.wowhead.com/spell=72884). For others, I guess it's a trial-and-error game, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I guess you'd be fond of a Dungeon Journal-esque addition to the game that describes every detail of every ability of an encounter.

[Betelgeuzah]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.

Oh no, do you need to use your brains too? I can't believe SE would make you do that.

Just keep crying how unfair it is, the really skilled players have already long since figured it out and are going to beat the coil while you're here wiping your tears.

That's because for good players it's not time consuming to figure the mechanics out. They're simply better than you, and you seem to have a hard time dealing with that. Boo freaking hoo.

[Sygmaelle]

If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

Good god that was such an amusing reading.

I truelly hope you ll never attempt to do the raids in Age of Conan or even Rift. Figurin out is what make stuff enjoyable.

[Raiz_Cineris]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.
If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

Good grief, have a little pride as a gamer. Handed out hints to counter boss mechanics? What is this world coming to, really?

[Pellegri]

Good grief, have a little pride as a gamer. Handed out hints to counter boss mechanics? What is this world coming to, really?

And people wonder why the majority(if not all) of endgame content is completed within the first few days of a patch's lifespan in WoW. They hand you a guide for what every single boss does even on heroic difficulty bringing a kill down to just whether or not you have the gear or skill to move out of things while doing your rotation. The reason why so many things in WoW are easy now is because each and every thing is handed to you on a silver platter, there is nothing to learn anymore outside of class rotation which has always been easy enough for mmos after spending enough time online.

[Xilrasis]

The problem with Twintania isn't that you have to "figure out mechanics" etc, its that once you do (or think you do) you have to distinguish whether your death from mechanics is due to 1) Improper Understanding of the mechanic, 2) Player failure, or 3) Dying due to server de-syncs despite doing the same thing you did to avoid the mechanic the last 5 times it happened.

Unfortunately, #3 happens much too frequently on the later phases of the encounter and makes you question #2, and especially #1.

Also, if you couldn't figure out Allaghan rot in all of like... two pulls... you should probably take a step back and wait on content to be handed to you instead of wasting your time.

[Yenn]

The problem with Twintania isn't that you have to "figure out mechanics" etc, its that once you do (or think you do) you have to distinguish whether your death from mechanics is due to 1) Improper Understanding of the mechanic, 2) Player failure, or 3) Dying due to server de-syncs despite doing the same thing you did to avoid the mechanic the last 5 times it happened.

Unfortunately, #3 happens much too frequently on the later phases of the encounter and makes you question #2, and especially #1.

Also, if you couldn't figure out Allaghan rot in all of like... two pulls... you should probably take a step back and wait on content to be handed to you instead of wasting your time.

This is exactly the problem. Sunwell Plateau in WoW was probably the hardest content in any MMO, and it didn't rely on forcing you to spend 10 minutes fighting a boss to reach a phase and wipe after 20 seconds, without learning anything.
Every time you wiped, there was an obvious reason for it, and the number of players who actually saw/beat most of these encounters was ridiculously low, even after there were guides to them.

Again, Allagan Rot is just an example of a mechanic that gives you absolutely no clue what the ability does, and relies on you figuring it out with brute force.
I'm using it as an example of an ability whose mechanics are completely unknown. I consider this acceptable for Rot, because it's the only unknown mechanic in the encounter, and it isn't a billion long phases of unknown mechanics (a la Twintania)

It's fun to figure things out, but it's not fun when 90% of the difficulty is figuring things out and 10% is executing a strategy correctly and playing well.
I don't think any FC who is spending multiple nights of their week on Twintania would agree that they're having fun. Everyone is basically just throwing themselves at her, right now.

[Pinch]

This is exactly the problem. Sunwell Plateau in WoW was probably the hardest content in any MMO, and it didn't rely on forcing you to spend 10 minutes fighting a boss to reach a phase and wipe after 20 seconds, without learning anything.

Sounds like M'uru phase 2 to me. Good thing they removed spell pushback.