Square, your NA/EU data centre has serious issues...

[Marishi-Ten]

Raist you are ignoring evidence and precedent as thus.

In beta I had no issues whatsoever.

In Early Access I had major issues as did 100%(?) of the community re logging in because quite simply the servers could not cope to the point that SquareEnix stopped selling their product because they realised they had a major issue. Now I don't know how heavily involved your have ever been in the higher echelons of a business however, I can confirm it takes major problems for a firm to decide to stop selling its product.

Prior to last weeks maintenance everything was rosy, then after maintenance the problems started again, then after this weeks maintenance everything is fine again.

The evidence is plain to see that SquareEnix are doing something during their maintainence sessions that is alleviating and causing problems for users.

This is compounded by the fact they refuse to communicate and support their customers who made a financial investment with them regarding purchase.

1.) Beta didn't incorporate the NA datacenter. Japan has more robust network protocols than NA can ever hope to achieve. You didn't experience problems because Japan's nodes and fiber destroy anything NA has.

2.) Early Access you were routing to the NA data center. Fiber and node ports were overloading under the amount of traffic and stress leading up to the Montreal data center. This is expected.

3.) Traffic ebbs and flows. As Square increases port and IP availability on their racks, it creates more route paths to ease up on the fiber and remote nodes. This is cause and effect. This isn't fixing anything. It's treating a symptom. The main problem is still there. All Square can do is try to mask it.

4.) Square is tweaking the ports on their side and adding more racks. They are talking to their fiber provider and re routing traffic to try to clear the issues. This isn't exact science. It's change this and see what happens. You can't test a network unless it's under load.

5.) What should they communicate? That they know there is a problem but since another company hosts the hops and fiber they can't do anything about it essentially throwing them under the bus and being open to a possible libel case? This makes them look inept to people that don't know how networking and servers work.

It's not anyone defending Square. It's how the internet fundamentally works.

[Gonzothegreat198]

I love how when anyone posts something in any thread that's opposite to what that person "KNOWS" is whats happening that it automatically makes that person commenting a SE White Knight, heaven forbid the person commenting might know what the hell they are talking about, instead of being a stuck up 12 year old kid who knows jack about network infrastructure.

[AndyFLHX]

I love how when anyone posts something in any thread that's opposite to what that person "KNOWS" is whats happening that it automatically makes that person commenting a SE White Knight, heaven forbid the person commenting might know what the hell they are talking about, instead of being a stuck up 12 year old kid who knows jack about network infrastructure.

I am a Network Security professional.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...%28Petition%29

[Marishi-Ten]

I am a Network Security professional.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...%28Petition%29

That's awesome you took the time to compile the bigger threads into one. I played with the idea, but never got around to it.

Square has to be careful announcing issues about latency. It's more of a PR/legal move than anything else. If they point the finger at a company and the fault isn't with or wholly on them, this leaves Square open to a libel suit. Square also has service agreements with their fiber provider. They may have a DNC with them about issues regarding their infrastructure that prohibits them from giving information. Also, why comment when nothing can be done? It doesn't do anyone any good and only shows the general public that something is wrong and Square isn't up to fixing it (even though they CAN'T, most people won't see it like that).

The sticky thread isn't so much a data mine for throttling (Some ISP's can and will do this though. I'm talking to you Verizon) but seems to be a mine for location and route information so they can show the backbone/fiber companies that there is indeed a problem and it needs to be addressed. They hid it to avoid any finger pointing and blaming. They essentially get what they need without pointing fingers.

On a final note, keep in mind that the US is operating on 60 year old technology and expects it to operate like a fiber drop to the host. It won't. It simply can't. The US will never have network infrastructure like Japan has. The US is too big and is too far behind the curve. I've seen some hubs that are in such sorry condition (AT&T) that it's amazing any traffic gets through at all.

[AndyFLHX]

That's awesome you took the time to compile the bigger threads into one. I played with the idea, but never got around to it.

Square has to be careful announcing issues about latency. It's more of a PR/legal move than anything else. If they point the finger at a company and the fault isn't with or wholly on them, this leaves Square open to a libel suit. Square also has service agreements with their fiber provider. They may have a DNC with them about issues regarding their infrastructure that prohibits them from giving information. Also, why comment when nothing can be done? It doesn't do anyone any good and only shows the general public that something is wrong and Square isn't up to fixing it (even though they CAN'T, most people won't see it like that).

The sticky thread isn't so much a data mine for throttling (Some ISP's can and will do this though. I'm talking to you Verizon) but seems to be a mine for location and route information so they can show the backbone/fiber companies that there is indeed a problem and it needs to be addressed. They hid it to avoid any finger pointing and blaming. They essentially get what they need without pointing fingers.

On a final note, keep in mind that the US is operating on 60 year old technology and expects it to operate like a fiber drop to the host. It won't. It simply can't. The US will never have network infrastructure like Japan has. The US is too big and is too far behind the curve. I've seen some hubs that are in such sorry condition (AT&T) that it's amazing any traffic gets through at all.

Very respectable post and argument. But due to the random nature of this issue, the blame falls on the company that obviously chose this route. Experiencing a bit of lag, maybe even 150-200ms would be okay really, even in some small windows. But rapid packet loss, and a large spread of the same issue means only one true thing.

+1

[Gonzothegreat198]

That's awesome you took the time to compile the bigger threads into one. I played with the idea, but never got around to it.

Square has to be careful announcing issues about latency. It's more of a PR/legal move than anything else. If they point the finger at a company and the fault isn't with or wholly on them, this leaves Square open to a libel suit. Square also has service agreements with their fiber provider. They may have a DNC with them about issues regarding their infrastructure that prohibits them from giving information. Also, why comment when nothing can be done? It doesn't do anyone any good and only shows the general public that something is wrong and Square isn't up to fixing it (even though they CAN'T, most people won't see it like that).

The sticky thread isn't so much a data mine for throttling (Some ISP's can and will do this though. I'm talking to you Verizon) but seems to be a mine for location and route information so they can show the backbone/fiber companies that there is indeed a problem and it needs to be addressed. They hid it to avoid any finger pointing and blaming. They essentially get what they need without pointing fingers.

On a final note, keep in mind that the US is operating on 60 year old technology and expects it to operate like a fiber drop to the host. It won't. It simply can't. The US will never have network infrastructure like Japan has. The US is too big and is too far behind the curve. I've seen some hubs that are in such sorry condition (AT&T) that it's amazing any traffic gets through at all.

And that's only when you look at just the networking side. If you take a look at the telephone side of things its even worse. The one set of switches that we have access to at my job can only be accessed through telnet/dos, and they are newer than the mainline switches that the majority of the east coast runs over.

[Marishi-Ten]

Please take you routing crap elsewhere, it is not, nor ever was relevant to my thread.

It's not only relevant, it's the cause of the issues you're seeing. Plain and simple. Route paths are the most important aspect in networking. It gives you a reference point to an otherwise impossible to pin down issue. It's your compass when you're lost in the networking world.

You're frustrated. I get it. I also sympathize with you. Techs at ISP companies aren't known for their intellect. They only have visibility into their own infrastructure (just like Square and EVERY other telecomms company).

I'll break it down:

You are in LA (CLIENT) and you are getting on a plane to NY (HOST). It should be a quick trip with minimal layovers (HOPS). However, there is a storm (PORT OVERLOADING) and you are delayed. You then have a layover in Chicago (BOTTLENECKING) increasing your time to NY (HOST). This adds time onto your total flight time (LATENCY/PACKETS). You took longer to get to NY (HOST) and now you've missed the grand gala inauguration ball (MD5 ERRORS/DESYNCHRONIZATION TO HOST) but you made it, you're just late (RUBBERBANDING/RUSH OF DATA).

The internet isn't a point A to point B. Ever. You have to route though major hubs to get to your destination. If the hub is having problems, you have problems. Though it may appear the issue is with Square, they do NOT own the hubs and as thus, cannot provide maintenance or support on them. Does this make it Square's fault? No, it doesn't. They are just the end point. Only by changing flight paths (MORE RACKS) can they service the amount of people passing through their terminals (SERVER/HOST).

Though this isn't the best analogy, it does show how the internet works and how many companies are involved and the MILLIONS of miles of copper/fiber you have to go through to get data I/O.

You're blaming the wrong people.

[Mang]

Your jumping on every minute detail and using that to deflect attention from the true issue here. All I am seeing is either a shill, or a fan boy spending a mega amount of time running around the forums defending SE.

Also since maintainence this morning everything has been fine.

So the issue I was having up until this point were down 100% to SE as they obv fixed some issue they were having with their data centre this morning.

GTFO my thread ^^

I don't like you. You suck at arguing, your grammar is terrible as shit, and you at no point refuted a thing Raist said.

[Appleh4x]

It's not only relevant, it's the cause of the issues you're seeing...

Actually the cause is entirely the game/data server. This is an email I got from SE support today:
"Dear Customer,

Regarding your request for account support. Please find your answer below.

If you are receiving an Error 90000 when attempting to access FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn, please try again later. This error simply means that the server is congested and you will need to keep trying until you are able to login. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center."

[HoroBoro]

Raist, you're caught in a devil's proof. You can't establish that this issue is not SE's fault.

1. You have to prove that the reason this issue is occurring is because of infrastructure and not SE server configuration.
2. The only way to prove that is to get a massive amount of data/logs from each user who is having this problem (as 1 ping/trace does nothing)
3. You have no means of obtaining this massive amount of information. The reports you're doing here is like a grain of sand in the desert.

Thus you cannot prove that this is not SE's fault.

Likewise,we are caught in Hempel's Raven

1. If lag affects our game it's SE's fault
2. If we don't have lag, it's not SE's fault.
3. To qualify 1, in the past , when there was a lag, SE has been able to resolve it.
4. We have no lag SE is doing a good job.

By the same reasoning, the statement would be: If we have Lag, SE is not doing a good job. This is paradoxical - I can think of 100s of occasions where I can have lag and it's not SE's fault.

So what is the solution? The problem is that WE'RE LACKING IN INFORMATION. If SE would be so kind to provide us with more INFORMATION we can start finding a solution. It could very well be our fault. However, we don't know without INFORMATION. And there's literally nothing we can do.