"Warrior tank sucks!" opinions only based on one or two factors atm?

[Ysarel]

WAR can tank all the content in the game, but PLD makes it easier and/or more efficient. This is the issue that I think Yoshida's off-hand comment about how WAR tanks are fine because the dev team uses them in Coil completely missed. Unless the content is so easy that you need nothing more than a SCH's fairy to heal it, swapping a PLD in for a WAR potentially allows you to improve the efficiency of your group. Even there, the damage output of a Sword Oath PLD isn't all that far removed from what a WAR can dish out.

Don't get me wrong, I love WAR. PLD bores me to tears and I have zero interest in playing it at level 50. If I want to tank, I go WAR. But it could really use some tweaks.

Stupid 1k character limit.

[Exrage]

WAR can tank all the content in the game, but PLD makes it easier and/or more efficient...
Don't get me wrong, I love WAR. PLD bores me to tears and I have zero interest in playing it at level 50. If I want to tank, I go WAR. But it could really use some tweaks.

Stupid 1k character limit.

Ysarel hits it right on the head. Warriors are designed to off tank as we do more damage than paladins and can easily swap to tank mode when they die, hold the boss long enough for the debuff to wear off if we save all our defensive CDs and time them properly, and then they /provoke off us for the +1 enmity with little of a gap in the healer's MP compared to if the paladin hadn't gone down. We can main tank, make no mistake, but for the end game you need a team that can carry the difference that a PUG just won't provide. Just remember the 8 classes/8 slots in a party, we have a role- but so do paladins.

[ChriskoOnAnotherLevel]

Ysarel hits it right on the head. Warriors are designed to off tank as we do more damage than paladins and can easily swap to tank mode when they die, hold the boss long enough for the debuff to wear off if we save all our defensive CDs and time them properly, and then they /provoke off us for the +1 enmity with little of a gap in the healer's MP compared to if the paladin hadn't gone down. We can main tank, make no mistake, but for the end game you need a team that can carry the difference that a PUG just won't provide. Just remember the 8 classes/8 slots in a party, we have a role- but so do paladins.

Warrior might be the only thing you are currently have leveled, but the damage myth has long been parsed. The damage difference between warrior and paladin is SMALL at best. So saying that paladin is better, because we do more damage is just flat out stretching the truth.

Lets be honest here...., Every single major aspect that a tank is required to fill, paladin currently does it better while taking less damage doing it.

The ONLY possible way to fix warrior quickly and efficiently at this point in time is to add a %damage reduction to defiance. Other exotic measure would also work but this is the quickest and fastest method to get their damage taken CLOSE.

I am a firm believer that PLD should always take LESS damage, but the current damage gap is far far too wide to even be considered reasonable.

[Ninjiitstu]

Lets be honest here...., Every single major aspect *that isn't turn 4 coils adds off tank* that a tank is required to fill, paladin currently does it better while taking less damage doing it.

Fixed for you.

[Cocytus]

Fixed for you.

Sweet I can just skip titan HM and turns 1-3 where parties refuse to take me and go straight to turn 4 where I can actually be useful? Nice!!!! I guess I didn't see that button as my it must have been covered up by the giant billboard pointing out the fact warrior's kit is sloppy and needs a tune up or rework. Damn if only I could get around that giant sign. *Yells out* "Yoshi.... You got that crane yet to move this sign?.... What?.. You're the one that put it here?.. You mean its supposed to be there?" Sorry guys looks like its supposed to be there. /shrug

[Coramac]

Fixed for you.

Most of the server firsts I've seen for Turn 4 used double Paladin tanks.

Edit: Actually, pretty much all the Turn 4 videos use double Paladin.

[Nalou]

Warriors are designed to off tank ...

Excuse-me, but I don't understand that "off-tank" concept.
I'm not lv 50 yet, but I've been tanking for years on FFXI, and we never NEVER had a main tank and an off tank.
We always had a couple of equal tanks bouncing hate, which means tanks working together to take hits alternatively, and also means tanks saving each other by pulling hate from their co-tanker at critical moments.
It also means the healer's job is easier, because two tanks double your tanking Hp pool while splitting the damage taken.
It's also safer for the whole raid/alliance, because, in case one tank dies, you can still survive with the other.
Dual-tanking raises the overall survivability, which also allows more room for offensive actions, instead of being defensive all the time, which leads to faster kills.

So, what's the point of having main tank/off tanks alternate while you could be dual-tanking offensive style ?

[Sixteen]

Excuse-me, but I don't understand that "off-tank" concept.

That's because there is no off-tank concept. Warriors are not better off tanks, most guilds run BC with two paladins. The only thing warriros are better for is Cm/AK farming. Who would roll a class knowing for a fact that they would be stuck off tanking when their counterpart can do both?

[CianaIezuborn]

Excuse-me, but I don't understand that "off-tank" concept.
I'm not lv 50 yet, but I've been tanking for years on FFXI, and we never NEVER had a main tank and an off tank.
We always had a couple of equal tanks bouncing hate, which means tanks working together to take hits alternatively, and also means tanks saving each other by pulling hate from their co-tanker at critical moments.
It also means the healer's job is easier, because two tanks double your tanking Hp pool while splitting the damage taken.
It's also safer for the whole raid/alliance, because, in case one tank dies, you can still survive with the other.
Dual-tanking raises the overall survivability, which also allows more room for offensive actions, instead of being defensive all the time, which leads to faster kills.

So, what's the point of having main tank/off tanks alternate while you could be dual-tanking offensive style ?

What? I don't even know where to start on this one. There needs to be a horrible idea fairy that visits the forums at night and sets posts like this on fire and then lobotomizes the brain it sprang from.

There is a reason that consistently throughout MMO history that relied on the healer/tank dynamic that the most dangerous time in an encounter is during the tank swap, so much so that it's often safer to eat the mechanical penalty for not swapping tanks and bring an extra dps/healer than to perform the swap. Tank swapping requires quick coordination between the healers and tanks, or requires excess healing to cover for lack of coordination that could have been invested in dps.

Also, hate it for Warriors. From my perspective, as a PLD, it's not really the small but significant static difference in effective tanking. It's the massive amount of proactive defensive cooldowns that PLDs get.

[Hachiko]

Also, hate it for Warriors. From my perspective, as a PLD, it's not really the small but significant static difference in effective tanking. It's the massive amount of proactive defensive cooldowns that PLDs get.

The difference isn't small. It's massive.

Interestingly enough, there is a rough parity between mitigation from cooldowns. The PLD cooldowns are all better, and actually more usable, and scale better with monster damage, but the WAR cooldowns provide a significant amount of mitigation.

The biggest difference is Shield Oath v. Defiance/Inner Beast, the ability to block, and the STR reduction from Rage of Halone.