FFXIV: ARR becoming TORtanic

[Skullcrusher]

Bye then i guess?

As you can see, im crafting and minig at the same time as leveling my first class.

Im still having fun, so again, cya!

[Risae]

Bye then i guess?

As you can see, im crafting and minig at the same time as leveling my first class.

Im still having fun, so again, cya!

Funny that people said the same stuff for the Tortanic

[Hawklaser]

Even though this seems mostly like trolling, I'll bite.

Seriously, with the way things are progressing, it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR:

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

The reality of the current MMO landscape is that an MMO can exist without crafting, but it can not exist without PVP, you said it yourself, crafting wasn't fun, the degree of its simplicity or complexity is irrelevant, the point is that crafting isn't fun and downright boring, Many would rather clash swords with another player than carry a pickaxe

First off, lets touch on the PvP. A MMO does not need PvP to be successful. It can be fun, but in the end it has no purpose besides fluff and bragging rights. PvP should not come at the expense of the PvE. If I wanted a game for PvP only, I'd be playing something more like League of Legends, Starcraft, Street Fighter, Battlefield 3, or any other number of games where that is a prime focus of the game. Now crafting for many is also nothing but fluff. Both help build the community of a game, and if I had to choose between the two at the start of a game I would always choose crafting first as due to the type of community it helps build.

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

This comes back to a problem with the entertainment industry as a whole. It takes much longer to create the entertainment than it does for it to be consumed. Lets just guess that it takes them at least a month to design and test a simple Dungeon like Copperbell Mines, it takes us less than an hour to consume that for a run with no experience at all. So let me pose a question to you, which do you think would be better way to successfully launch an MMO? Having a nice blend of content for all players, having most of your content for leveling, or having the majority of content being post-game only?

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

Even in WoW like MMO's there is very little incentive to level an alt outside of getting experience on how alternate classes work.

- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff

- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

Not everyone enjoys crafting, but some of us do and yet to see a crafting system in a game better than XIV's. If you think crafting is boring, try doing something like Mining or Botony. I actually rather enjoy taking a break to go mine for a while.

The "worthless" drops, and hard to accumulate gil in the game comes back to the economy intended to be player based and not npc based. NPC based economies tend to have massive inflation as the cash sinks rarely keep up with the fountains.

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees

They already addressed the repair costs once, also if all you do is run endgame content there has to be a cost to it otherwise the whole player economy does not work. So they are watching the Gil sinks and fountains closely, and are willing to adjust them as needed.

- No server transfers upon launch

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

You don't need server transfers or vanity systems at launch. The only reason XIV needs server transfers to be implemented is because the game was more popular than they expected and servers filled up very fast and was hard for people to create characters on the same server as their friends due to the popularity. If you are wanting to transfer servers for a different reason, either its because you ticked off most of the server, or you are trying to get into one of the super elite progression FCs that are ahead of every other server instead of trying have your server compete with them. Vanity systems while good, are fluff and should not be prioritized over the essentials.

You might want to expand on the terrible Duty Finder a bit, as I see it working quite fine outside of the one dungeon everyone flocks to because it is the path of least resistance, so its not an issue with the Duty Finder itself but over use of one Dungeon.

[Skullcrusher]

Funny that people said the same stuff for the Tortanic

Well, honestly , cya then. Get the F out of here!
Why are you here?
What do you expect to gain from crying on these forums?

[Jwrigh7784]

Well Juubi, I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you. Your opinion, which is what your post is, does not reflect the views of everyone who plays this game. For instance, I hate PvP and I love crafting. The crafting in this game is fantastic and in my opinion one of the most enjoyable crafting experiences in any MMO that I've played (and I've played quite a few over the past decade or so). How can you claim that the majority of players have no interest in crafting? Have you personally spoken to every player? As someone pointed out already, there are quite literally hundreds of players sitting around crafting in the cities, hell, I've seen people crafting out in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere. Now, I haven't made it to endgame yet but from what I've read and heard from LS/FC members it's not too different from a good number of MMO's. So because I like this game does that make me a "White Knight"? If you don't like this game, which I'm going to assume is the case, than why are you posting in the forums complaining instead of finding something else to play?

[Chrysania]

I suppose I can't get off stating my personal opinion of the game as fact. I'd be no better than the OP at that point. To put it like this, GW2 had nothing for me.

WvWvW was fun in (maybe) 30-minute bursts. Maybe a bit more if your server was the dominant server for the week. To me it was nothing more than one big PvP tug-of-war match, but completely one-sided.

Running around getting map-completion felt more like a chore than fun.

I had the good fortune of finding some great people to wvwvw with, and it absolutely made it fun, which is absolutely my own mileage. The main point was that there's quite a lot to do, and was from the start. It just want the usual treadmill stuff we've all long elected an endgame to...have to be? I dunno on that.

The bolded part there though...I agree. But there's a while lot of that sort of thing rampant in mmo's. I do not think we should just accept it, cause laundry lists of chores /= a good game. ARR here, well...crafting and gathering are fine, I think, at least in their mechanics. My thing? Not really so much.

I'm going to hope that 2.1 shows some reel effort to make this a better game, not just for me, but for anyone that doesn't think its cool to run out of things to do and have to farm xp in boring ways to level a battle class. Or endure an endgame that's just damn boring on to of being tedious.

That's my chief gripe; mediocrity does not have to be a staple of every mmo. It shouldn't be tolerated, and I, for one, won't support it. Will you?

[Suirieko]

Seriously, with the way things are progressing, it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR:

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

That's because FFXIV was never designed to be entirely focused on pvp. PVP content will be coming in 2.1.

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

Things to do after finishing main story:

Amdapor Keep
Work in Relics
Farm Tomestones
Form a group to do Coil of Bahamut (which is extremely challenging)
Hard mode primals
Crafting, gathering, etc.

Plus this is a newly relaunched games. You expected 50 things to do from the start?

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

Leveling multiple classes/jobs allows you to become more versatile as a player, which in turn makes you a more valuable player.

- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff

Disagreed. There's a lot of benefits in crafting which allows players to make money. However, I feel SE did drop the ball on this considering how majority of the quests gave you gears, which made the value of crafted gears a lot lower than it should be. I am hoping that SE will change this. In the end, some crafting classes are still valuable.

- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

I honestly agree with this, but it doesn't bother me as much. Several crafting classes are dependent on these drops, thus can be valuable. See: Blue Landtrap Leaf

- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

Again. Gathering class and crafting allows you to make money.

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees

Only because you don't know how to make money. Teleport fee has been reasonable (Like 500G per teleport at most is SO expensive ¬_¬) Repair fees are reasonable now.

- No server transfers upon launch

Pointless considering most servers were closed for transfer due to server problems. It's coming very soon anyway.

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

It's a lot better than it used to be, but still, don't let it stop you from asking your friends to party with you. You do know how to party, right?

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

Yeah. This bummed me, but it's coming.

I hope Square Enix remembers that first impressions last and hope they won't regret that these game deficiencies won't be solved too little too late like SWTOR did.

A lot of these "deficiencies" are being solved in 2.1 which is coming soon.

[Chrysania]

Clearly every new MMO must have at least 8 years worth of content in order to be viable. /end sarcasm

If it can't hold a candle to the mmo with 8 years worth of content, it fails. Welcome to industry. You don't get participation ribbons here, and that style of appeal to gradeschool 'fair' is a quaint little dream possessed by the foolish.

Wah, Blizz didn't have the competition that exists now. Its not fair to compare a new game to WoW! You have to compare it to WoW when it WA new or, or, or...ITS JUST NOT FAIR ERMAGERD!

Nevermind that such comparison is utterly irrelevant. Nibody's playing 2005 WoW. Maybe some weird, tiny hacked off private server, but the WoW everything I'd competing with?

Yeah, Blizz has years of superb experience in this industry. Yeah, they're the big dog in the mmo arena. No, wow is not perfect, but it isn't afraid to do new things. And copy old things that worked.

SWTOR has finally got wise, I think. Nobody cares about 'the vision' with a big ip. They want their expectations.

Tall order? Sure. Deliver or you too can die in an inferno if nobody caring that it wasn't fair that your game couldn't offer as much as the big, old, well-oiled but aging WoW machine.

Cause what's funny is...it actually is fair, objectively. When something manages to truly rival or slowly overtake wow, it'll be totally fair. Totally fair is ... Can ARR compete with the gear treadmill giants it has been arrayed against?

Probably not. If SE doesn't scramble and, in scrambling, do an awful lot right before it loses all of the VERY TEMPORARY opportunity its created for itself to...miracle of miracles...make a new first impression?

I don't think many realize how fragile ARR's position is right now. They better choose well on who they're going to cater to with the first few updates and how its a good enough catering job. I'll say that of that.

Cause it is, whether you like it or not, a present fact; ARR has nothing except chocobos and moogles that its rivals do not have in superior quantity and quality. That's the cold truth of it.

For the moment, it enjoys the rare goodwill of the gaming community, because SE went to unheard of lengths to keep their players' good faith. They earned this second chance.

What they have not earned is a guarantee that we shall Apr whatever they make because they remade it. Its awesome that they rebuilt it rather than pull an NCSoft.

But right now, imo, this isn't a quality comeback showing. This has potential, but it has some serious work to do to compete with...honestly, much of anything currently powering along. Some of this is, in fact, just damn insulting and should not under any circumstances be paid for and rewarded.

Some of it is good and they should do a lot more of it. Chiefly, and this is a no brainer that should have occurred to someone a while ago...

It should be more like a FINAL FANTASY game. Hey SE, did you know that final fantasy is a rather popular series? Did you know that millions upon millions of people have enjoyed FINAL FANTASY games?

Why are your final fantasy branded mmo attempts such departures from everything awesome you've ever done?

Here, this one is free; try copying Final Fantasy games. I, for one would happy subscribe to a final fantasy game that felt like a final fantasy game to play.

Right now, honestly, WoW has you beat to a pup in your own arena. Big, dramatic story? Ye goods does wow have that. Giant, epic boss fights? Check. Quirky minigames that some millions love? Check.

Its funny, SE. Its almost like WoW copied...YOU...in a lot of ways!

Give it a try, eh?

[Wobble]

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)
Could care less about this myself.

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.
I do agree with this point.

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?
I do agree this could use some work. I myself enjoy lower level dungeons but I know some do not.

(1)- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff
I love crafting and gathering myself it is very relaxing and gets me away from the whiney self absorbed know it alls in level 50 dungeons, which by the way are just stressful with the mentality of most players in the game.

(2)- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials
Again I love crafting so this is not a problem with me.

(3)- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.
See (1) & (2) I have had no issue with gil in the game doing these and selling drops or crafts.

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees
Semi agree here. This is the first game I played where gear has to be repaired so it was new to me, but again see (1) this will do away with repair fees and you can level the crafts free or almost free if you farm the materials yourself. Teleports I agree suck too much gil though.

- No server transfers upon launch
Not an issue as I paid attention to the lodestone and got the server transfer when they offered it during Beta.

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder
They already addressed this and said there is a fix coming for it.

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch
Already addressed and also going to be added at some point.

[Chrysania]

I love how dramatic and evil that sounds xD Coupled with your ominous-looking character pic, it gave me the perfect impression of an Edea/Kuja-esque Final Fantasy villain.

So I'm a bleater, now? Is that because I defend a part of the game I enjoy or because some of my opinions differ from yours?

Anyway, you might be right about crafting and gathering not raking in tons of new players/non-MMO-playing FF fans. But that doesn't mean that stuff like good crafting, housing, etc. won't make SE money. These systems are what make real MMO/sandbox fans keep subscribing for months and years. FFXI mimicked Everquest *much* more than it resembled a real Final Fantasy game, but it made SE TONS of money because it had so many MMO fans that stuck with it for many years. The Final Fantasy aspect of this MMO can be used to draw more players in, but they don't have to make the game feel that similar to the single player FFs like you're basically implying.

The main story in this game could probably be a bit better, for sure, but within the limitations of the MMO genre it's pretty great. Not to mention the lore, aesthetic, and the environmental storytelling in FFXIV are amazing.

There are certainly tons of things that could be improved in FFXIV. But I think a lot of people are going to stick with this game because of all the good stuff they have now and all the stuff they're promising to implement in the near future.

And now you're on with something that isn't wishing quantities of players would quit! This, I can respond to meaningfully!

I'd love for ARR to succeed wildly. Let me say that in no uncertain terms. I'd love for it to be a Final Fantasy MMO, 'cause honestly...I'm a Final Fantasy fan. Along with umpty-four million others. The prooooblem at hand is not that you have opinions that differ from mine; takes all colors of the rainbow, after all; but there IS an opinion subset that, right now, is very toxic.

That is the 'Its amazing and wonderfully perfect in every way never change anything! Complainers should just...leave! NYEAH!' position. There are, in fact, some great things about ARR. You'll not find a single post of me kicking a wall about the music; the music's excellent. Beautiful scoring.

Won't find me complaining about the art style; its fantastic. Won't find me griping about gear or stats or even too much by way of classes and mechanics (other than the ungodly lag that makes me think I'm dodging crap when, on the server, I'm just kind've...not. Apparently.)

Won't find me even saying that crafting classes suck. You WILL find me saying that they're not my bag and that I kind've like gathering classes, but I'ma be brutally honest; there's nothing about either that would convince most players pondering a sub to stay. Why?

Because most players will come through the door in the first place because its got 'Final Fantasy' on it. Its not going to take anything but perhaps fumes worth of players from WoW or SWTOR. Its not, under any stretch of the imagination, telling a more persistently engaging and immersive story than WoW or SWTOR, or TSW.

I see that opening CGI and I am blown away. The music is tearjerking and seeing the last moments of Eorzea as it was, and the way Lousoix smiles as Bahamut's (I presume) megaflare breath descends?

I WANNA PLAY THAT GAME! GIMME! TAKE MAH FREAKING MONEY.

But we don't ...really get to play that game, do we. It almost feels like we might get to in the first 20 or so levels; almost! But then the same, brainless fed-exing and fetch-it and kill-all-the-rats stuff proliferates. Leves and fates don't offer anything but a tourniquet solution when the quests are just ...gone, and you need a level and a half before you can resume the main story.

And when I got to the end of that main story, I almost felt, for a fleeting handful of moments during the Ultima Weapon fight, like I was playing a Final Fantasy game.

And then I had to skip more cutscenes because my party was sobbing the whole run about 'noobs needing to watch this sh*t in the inn and not hold everyone back'.

Experience terminated.

So...thank you for the cogent reprise, at least. I'ma go play FF8 on my PS3 some more and wish Square still bothered making good games.

'Cause this just isn't a good game. Its an MMO alright, and there's this demented sort of...something akin to a twisted sort of pride that pervades the MMO gaming community, that MMO's don't have to be good games. They're not supposed to be good games. They're supposed to be grindfests that are painful to play because you're supposed to bleed, and suffer, and hate every step of it until you are hardcore, and then you are allowed to be proud and happy.

That seems the summated mentality. I don't ...have that mentality.

I want a good game. There are lots of good games to play. WoW is a shockingly and amazingly good GAME to play. Of all the MMO's currently going, WoW is one of the few I'd play single player. TSW, I -did- play solo. Right smack through the main story, and I loved every damn minute of it. Pretty dang good game there too.

SWTOR? Some of those class stories are pretty fun, though they suffer from some of the same disjointed schizophrenia that's plaging ARR's main story. You have to do way too much 'side' stuff between installments, and it gets really easy to wind up going 'Why do I care about this dumbface again? I remember what was happening, but not why I'm supposed to care' a lot in some of them. Not so much in others.

Now lets look over at DC Universe Online. If you like DC comics, its a rather good game. Still a gear treadmill MMO for its 'endgame', but a pretty good GAME up to that point.

And that, at least to me, is a very important thing. One simple question is, for me, of ultimate importance.

WOULD I PLAY THIS GAME IF IT WERE SINGLE PLAYER?

No. Not even when I modify the question's context reasonably to allow for MMO's just plain having a different business requirement. WoW? Yes. I would.

TSW? Absolutely. In fact, I wish TSW were just a multiplayer game and not an MMO. Common-quality MMO idiots that don't like thinking and are allergic to learning are tortured mercilessly in that game, and they torture the rest of us by their persistent presence.

ARR? No. I can honestly say that I wouldn't play this in its current state as a single player game; the game itself is...barely there. There's just not much there at all.

And another gear treadmill endgame? Yeah, I'm not even gonna touch it. Gee, I wonder how this one turns out. Is the answer 'Like every other one in the history of ever', Brain?

Yes, Pinky. Yes, it is.