My WAR & the two aspects to make you tank effectively!

[CurlyBruce]

That's not why I suggest you use Vengeance. I suggest you use Vengeance because it causes you to counterattack every hit you're given. When you couple that with bloodbath, you are self healing for EVERY auto attack, and healing for 30-100 per enemy strike. This is higher if coupled with unchained. If your opponent is a fast striking enemy (or a group) you heal incredibly fast due to the constant auto attack hits you are dealing.

Vengeance is not gonna produce anywhere near 120-400 damage. If you are including your own auto-attacks and WSs then maybe, but even still 30-100 HP per GCD is a pittance when you are getting regularly blasted in the face for 1500-1700 from regular mob auto-attacks let alone WS.

[Lhun]

Vengeance is not gonna produce anywhere near 120-400 damage. If you are including your own auto-attacks and WSs then maybe, but even still 30-100 HP per GCD is a pittance when you are getting regularly blasted in the face for 1500-1700 from regular mob auto-attacks let alone WS.

Everyone is missing this here. With vengeance up, you counterattack EVERY...HIT...YOU...TAKE...FROM WHAT YOU ARE TANKING. Including abilities! You also get health from your regular auto attacks, your ability combos, and everything else you happen to be doing at the time. Combine that with unchained as well, and the potential self healing during the duration of bloodbath is much higher.

Even though you're not getting the attack animation for Veng, it goes off every single time you are attacked by an enemy in any way, which in turn with bloodbath, heals you.

[CurlyBruce]

Everyone is missing this here. With vengeance up, you counterattack EVERY...HIT...YOU...TAKE...FROM WHAT YOU ARE TANKING. Including abilities! You also get health from your regular auto attacks, your ability combos, and everything else you happen to be doing at the time. Combine that with unchained as well, and the potential self healing during the duration of bloodbath is much higher.

Even though you're not getting the attack animation for Veng, it goes off every single time you are attacked by an enemy in any way, which in turn with bloodbath, heals you.

And what you are not getting (cause I even pointed it out in my post) is 30-100 Healing per GCD is nothing compared to the 1200-1700 hits you take on a regular basis from Coil bosses. Even Titan hits for around 800-900 per auto-attack.

[Lhun]

And what you are not getting (cause I even pointed it out in my post) is 30-100 Healing per GCD is nothing compared to the 1200-1700 hits you take on a regular basis from Coil bosses. Even Titan hits for around 800-900 per auto-attack.

Where on earth are you getting 30-100HP per GCD? For the full duration of Bath and Veng (even better with unchained) you will heal anywhere from 500-1500HP for it's duration, depending on the auto-attack speed of your opponent.

[CurlyBruce]

Where on earth are you getting 30-100HP per GCD? For the full duration of Bath and Veng (even better with unchained) you will heal anywhere from 500-1500HP for it's duration, depending on the auto-attack speed of your opponent.

Oh, I don't know, maybe the post where you said Vengeance + Bloodbath gives you about 30-100HP per enemy strike. Then I proceeded to inform you that there is no possible way Vengeance will deal 120-400 damage per reflect (Bloodbath is 25%, if it's going to heal 30-100 HP the hits need to be 120-400 damage). So I gave you the benefit of doubt assumed you meant healing from both reflect and abilities you were using. You can get off about one ability+autoattack per enemy attack assuming it doesn't WS in between. That's where 30-100HP per GCD came from.

[Dhex]

Everyone is missing this here.

The perfect use of Bloodbath is the following and I've posted it before: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1302097

Even with Vengeance and everything else being done perfectly your HP returns from a perfect Bloodbath self-healing cycle are going to total under 1,500HP and you'll still have a "gap" phase where the healer will have to cover you.

It's all been discussed forwards and backwards, tested, and people have sat and theorycrafted - done math - changed gear setups - materia melds - allotments - everyone is a pretty sweeping generalization.