Selling HM Runs - Is it against TOS?

[Chiruru53]

I really wish people would just get over it and stop worrying about what other people are doing.

[Aoshi1]

It plainly states you can't sell anything from within the game (services/items) for real world money.

Like it or not, selling the runs and having someone actually pay for it are not bannable by this article.

[Breladine]

Problem not solved. It states real-world money OR value any in-game currency. Do you have something better?

I do: You're mis-reading it.

You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items.

The section I bolded is the FIRST part of that sentence, and then everything else comes after. "Real-world money or value" (value being, for example, I'll give you gil and you give me a hamburger.. you give me your account and I'll give you a chocolate bar... trade, basically).

A whole thread based on reading the TOS wrong.

[Drakzen1]

Hmm while it may not be against TOS its something that I and most of the people I know look down upon. Selling runs that have to be completed by group EA cannot be soloed is pretty low thing to do. I just dont understand the mindset behind this, why not just help people out? Its not like they can do it alone. Which is why when i see people doing shouts for this on my sever I tell them to join our FC so we can help you get it.

[Troop86]

You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services

[Drakzen1]

I do: You're mis-reading it.

You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items.

The section I bolded is the FIRST part of that sentence, and then everything else comes after. "Real-world money or value" (value being, for example, I'll give you gil and you give me a hamburger.. you give me your account and I'll give you a chocolate bar... trade, basically).

A whole thread based on reading the TOS wrong.

Sorry but your point is completely based upon assumptions. The point of primal battles is to gain either a primal weapon or to complete a relic quest which the last time i checked has value. In this sense his argument is completely valid. However this is also per speculation, as we do not know what SE means by (value).

[Tigerwong]

I'll reference a past case from Taiwan WoW servers. G-raids were popular in Taiwan WoW. (G-raids were gold raids. R-raids were roll raids.) Infact G-raids were much more popular than R-raids.

What they do in G-raids is basically when an item drops, they bid on it for Gold (or Gil in FFXIVARR). The winner gives the Gold to the raid leader and the raid leader gives him the gear. (Yes a G-raid raidleader has to be someone with very good reputation. You have to be in the best 1-3 realm guild, probably the guildmaster and at least some people in forums know you) At the end of the raid, the total Gold earned will be divided equally.

Rules are harsh, if your dps is lower than the tank, you don't get the share. If you heals is like half of the others, you don't get the share. There will be no tutorials, no skype, no vent, the raid uses psychic communication and everyone runs to their spot and do their job. You are expected to read other raid members's moves and know what they want to do. If you die to something stupid you don't get the share. You agree to it the moment you enter that group.

The interesting part happens when G-raids started looking for "customers". Depending on how good the raid is, they can have one customer, or two or even three. The customer doesn't do anything. He can just dance at the corner for the whole raid, but he will have to show that he is rich enough (just show his gold in the trade window with the raid leader), and pay an entrance fee. And man, I have to admit, my heart jumped out when I first saw how rich these customers were, "If there was a way to force him to accept the trade... ... (evil grin)". His has WAY MORE gold than the total gold earned from the whole G-raid.

G-raids were kept low for a long time. Then somehow it leaked away and it became very popular. Soon G-raid raidleaders were receiving 24 hour bans. (But it seemed only if the G-raid involved the corrupted Gold from Goldsellers plus the total G-raid sum was very high). The reason was for promoting gold seling. Although the G-raid itself does not involve , real money, it surely promotes gold buying alot. You don't have to spend hours to grind for marks (or seals/tomestones in FFXIVARR). You just buy from a goldseller and enter a G-raid and you get all top end tier stuff.

I'll must say, G-raids were very profitable for hardcore raiders that only wanted raiding and don't like crafting and gathering. We can do one and survive on that gold for a month. A G-raid that was considered bad business due to bad drops or customers not rich enough usually had a sum of around 70,000 Gold (approximated from 10k to 15k per piece of gear). A WoW player levelling to top would have earned around 5000 gold through questing. That's 14 times the total gold of a player that just reached the top. Assume a FFXIVARR player has 200k Gil by the time he's 50. That will be equivalent to 2.8 million Gil. If the raid has 3 customers, the total will be divided by 21 here in FFXIVARR, which is 133,333 Gil earned per raid member.

This, surely is a kinda direct way of buying gear, that was otherwise not obtainable unless you raid hardmode and it is not the intended way to play the game.

[Zfz]

I think it should be read like this:

You may not:

1. sell
2. purchase
3. or exchange

for

1. real-world money
2. or real-world value

the following:

1. in-game currency
2. accounts
3. characters
4. in-game services

As to those "G-raids", I think they're better known as GDKP raids. I.e. using gold as DKP.

TWOW (Taiwan WOW) originally had very few GDKP raids, until Chinese immigrants flooded the servers and brought over this custom. Soon after that just about all PUG raids became GDKP raids. For a while that was all there is. Then after one or two content updates, GDKP raids started advertising for "customers". They also advertise for "temps", i.e. non-regular members of GDKP raids, and you are allowed to join if you fulfill their stringent gearing and achievement rules.

So LFG channel were full of these, and need-before-greed raids basically died out. On all forums and even most bigger guilds, newbies were told to first grind quests for money, then use that money to buy gear at GDKP raids. Then they could join guild official raids, etc.

But that's a little off topic.

People will sell services, whether a currency exists or not. We players are all born in a world with currency, so even if the game provides no official currency, players will find an alternative currency. Selling runs is here to stay and will develop into GDKP raids. As long as trade between players exist, services will be sold. If one goes to the extreme and eliminate all trading from the game, then players will default to third-party auction sites and RMT becomes par of the course for playing this game.

[ufufu]

Sorry but your point is completely based upon assumptions. The point of primal battles is to gain either a primal weapon or to complete a relic quest which the last time i checked has value. In this sense his argument is completely valid. However this is also per speculation, as we do not know what SE means by (value).

Hahaha!

No.

[Drakzen1]

[QUOTE=Zfz;1350228]I think it should be read like this:

You may not:

1. sell
2. purchase
3. or exchange

for[list=1][*]real-world money[*]or real-world value

Except the win = items (primal weapon or relic) which have real world value. There are hundreds of sites that are selling account that have relics are primal weapons as a key selling point.
Quick example. RMT buys a win for XX amount gets his relic or primal weapon then goes about selling that account for XX amount. This happen far too often, this type of activity is not how the game was meant to be played. Not that they will do anything about it even though i really wish they would.