Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Hirosashi]

And I've never claimed that you're supposed to tank in Sword Oath, just like you shouldn't tank without Defiance on. The point was that a WAR outside of Defiance has no DPS advantage over a PLD in Sword Oath, just like a WAR in Defiance has no real DPS or enmity advantage over a PLD in Shield Oath.

I do agree there, defiance really should carry some kind of defensive bonus other than just additional HP, honestly Defiance should be 25% bonus hp and 25% damage reduction, that would do a lot to put them closer to paladin in terms of mitigation.

[Kitru]

I do agree there, defiance really should carry some kind of defensive bonus other than just additional HP, honestly Defiance should be 25% bonus hp and 25% damage reduction, that would do a lot to put them closer to paladin in terms of mitigation.

I'm *hoping* you meant to say 25% +healing there instead of 25% damage reduction. Shield Oath is only 20% DR.

[Hirosashi]

Your gear is almost to the point where you can tank all of AK in sword oath.
snip...

I can kind of see that but its not really worth it, the extra damage is minimal at best in comparison to true dps damage, its better to stay in shield oath and take the reduced damage to allow your healer to throw dots or cast a few spells in between healing. I have not played warrior so I am unfamiliar with it however my friend does play warrior and I understand that he had a much easier time than I did early game tanking...ie when we ran together to test hate generation I couldn't even out threat him single target now however is a much different story and I do believe that they need at least 1 damage mitigation cooldown like rampart or at the very least a large boost to the self heals.

[Rios-Drakoon]

I do agree there, defiance really should carry some kind of defensive bonus other than just additional HP, honestly Defiance should be 25% bonus hp and 25% damage reduction, that would do a lot to put them closer to paladin in terms of mitigation.

wrong, Warrior is not a tank who reduce dmg, but at least he should have some decent selfheal.

[Hirosashi]

wrong, Warrior is not a tank who reduce dmg, but at least he should have some decent selfheal.

They don't need all the damage reduction of a paladin but taking 25% less damage while in defiance would make there self heals more effective as the damage you take would be scaled back. More so than a 25% healing buff...possibly in some situations maybe the later would be more effective. The self heals would still need a buff but it wouldn't need to be as large of a buff.

I'm *hoping* you meant to say 25% +healing there instead of 25% damage reduction. Shield Oath is only 20% DR.

25% damage reduction is what I meant because they have no other real defensive cool downs so it would never really be more than 25% which paladins can go way above 20% damage reduction even if it is only for a short time. Foresight is...meh it equates to like 2-5% damage reduction overall.

[CurlyBruce]

...

Just increasing the healing buff to 25% and making it on defiance by default would put them at equal effective HP as PLDs in Shield Oath. Honestly if they want to go the route of Higher HP but receives more healing they should make Thrill of Battle 90s and last 20s and also give it a 25% healing buff. It still wouldn't be as good as Rampart but it'd close the gap substantially. They could also make Wrath stacks grant a drain effect similar to Bloodbath, like say 10% damage dealt as HP per stack, max 50% at 5 stacks. Inner Beast could grant a shield equal to 300% of damage dealt, and also increases potency of the next cure spell received by 50%. Bloodbath grants a regen effect that restores 1% + X% of last damage recieved HP per tick. Just throwing random ideas out there.

[Kitru]

25% damage reduction is what I meant because they have no other real defensive cool downs so it would never really be more than 25% which paladins can go way above 20% damage reduction even if it is only for a short time. Foresight is...meh it equates to like 2-5% damage reduction overall.

Yeah... that's terrible logic. WAR should get its tank CDs improved to balance itself out with the PLD tanking CD suite. It should also get its +heal increased to 25%, through a combination of passive bonuses on Defiance and stack based via Wrath. Increased DR so that it's *higher* than PLD would just be insane. Hell, from an eHP standpoint, you're effectively asking for WAR to 167% of what a PLD gets, which is just *ridiculous*. Honestly, do you have *any* idea what you're suggesting actually has an effect upon or how anything actually relates to anything else?

[Hirosashi]

Yeah... that's terrible logic. WAR should get its tank CDs improved to balance itself out with the PLD tanking CD suite. It should also get its +heal increased to 25%, through a combination of passive bonuses on Defiance and stack based via Wrath. Increased DR so that it's *higher* than PLD would just be insane. Hell, from an eHP standpoint, you're effectively asking for WAR to 167% of what a PLD gets, which is just *ridiculous*. Honestly, do you have *any* idea what you're suggesting actually has an effect upon or how anything actually relates to anything else?

I said I wasn't familiar with the way warrior works going in but purely looking at the numbers a 25% damage reduction would help a lot in terms of tanking with the current skill set of the warrior. How is 5% dr over shield oath equate to 167% of paladin mitigation? I am genuinely curious. Also do you have to be so callus towards someone who is only pitching an idea?

[CurlyBruce]

...

He's saying WARs effective HP would be 167% higher than PLDs base HP. Base HP*1.25/.75= Base HP*~1.67

[C-croft]

Just a note, IB has an accepted bug listed for improper returns on healing. Hopefully that helps a little bit.