Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Onisake]

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which is why i said in the long run i'm finding SP to make a difference. while marginal, it's still something. agaisnt trash, it's not useful. but against bosses

It lives right alongside Steel Cyclone and Unchained on the "Wall of Uselessness".

I've found SC useful against trash. granted it's only marginally better than cross-class flash. it does free me up to take Mantra, Conv, Feather Foot, Internal Release, Provoke.

In a 5 minute fight you will get about 120 abilities off if you execute perfectly. which is about 40 combos. assuming no misses and you never miss a GCD. assuming a perfect 1/3 SP rotation you would get 13 off. however this is not realistic. because fracture, IB, etc. consuming GCD slots.

so really you'll get about 10 SPs. you gain 50% back from the combo of 250, which means a heal of 125 potency. assuming a 20% crit rate, those two combos generate 1375 potency in healing on average.

Now, I also lose 40 potency in attacks per combo. You could argue i'm also losing enmity in opportunity cost in addition to this damage, but I don't lose hate. so the extra enmity isn't needed. so it's not really 'lost.' so i'm losing a total of 400 potency in damage in opportunity cost. so i'm trading 400 potency in damage for 1375 potency in mitigation.

the obvious problem is, that 1375 healing from a war ends up being maybe 1.5 cure1 from a whm.

it is laughably bad, but it's still better than nothing. which is why again, a nice QoL would be to move SP to combo off of skull sunder. if we were to increase the potency to 270 instead of 250 it would be a nice, but not game-breaking buff.

Let me know when you get to hard content or DPS who aren't horrible. There is absolutely no way you will be able to hold aggro with SE => BB => SE => SP rotation. And why would you anyway? An extra 150 hps every 30 seconds? That's laughably pointless.

You aren't far enough to really understand, and that's fair enough, but BB => BB => SE => BB => BB is our best rotation as far as threat goes. Losing the SE buff for the Heavy Swing + Maim + Storm's Eye is no big deal. Losing literally ~1/4th of your enmity in order to fit in 120-200 self healing every 30 seconds is probably the worst tradeoff you could possibly make.

We're also behind PLD mitigation by FAR more than 10%. We're behind in required heals by ~9%, and that's before you count Rage of Halone or Block. Those together will put PLD WAYYY ahead of WAR. If you are getting enough out of Storm's Path to make up for even the heal difference I would be surprised. But if ~100-200 healing is 10% of the heals you receive every 30 seconds, then I think you might be outgearing the content.

I've been holding hate off a Relic/full DL bard against Garuda. I do the same rotation in AK with a relic/DL BLM and the same bard. i have no DL accessories and i'm using a scream. if you're losing hate something else is wrong. you generate PLENTY of enmity to hold off of DD. and besides, i said if people are getting close I throw in a couple extra BBs.

Reality: I never lose hate.

Reality: i don't really need to maximize enmity gain, because it's wasted.

Conclusion: I might as well improve my mitigation, even if it's by a tiny amount, by using SP.

The only content I have not done yet is Titan and Coil. This is because i'm helping gear the rest of my FC who aren't ready for titan/coil yet. I could have completed Titan and been active in coil weeks ago. but i'm simply not in a hurry. I'm enjoying the game. I don't need to rush to complete content just for the sake of it.

So unless Titan and coil mobs are made of paper, and the DD get a massive enmity buff for some other reason, my assumptions do not change. you just plain do not need to keep enmity threshold as high as you possibly can. I've never been in a situation where i am always riding the threat line and about to lose hate. so how about instead, you let me know when you learn to control the enmity line instead of blindly pushing it as high as possible.

For further clarification:

The Garuda runs I did yesterday showed my two bards doing about 100-120k damage each. I did between 30-35k damage. I never lost hate with my current rotations.

[Hirosashi]

well, if we wear DD accessories，we could deal ok dmg, i just crit for 950 on my warrior with dd gear on garuda, without defiance of course.

so this class definitely need to be adjusted..

A PLD with Sword Oath hits as hard as a WAR without Defiance. Even when they're going DPS mode, WAR doesn't deal more damage.

Um even in sword oath with my current gear the highest crit I have ever landed was just over 450. My 3-tier fast-savage-rage combo nets me around 400 damage-ish with no crits. Im not sure how warrior damage is but I feel like it would be higher than that.

[Hachiko]

The Garuda runs I did yesterday showed my two bards doing about 100-120k damage each. I did between 30-35k damage. I never lost hate with my current rotations.

Well, keep enjoying Garuda I guess. If you're able to keep aggro while only using butcher's block once every 30 seconds, more power to you.

[Onisake]

Well, keep enjoying Garuda I guess. If you're able to keep aggro while only using butcher's block once every 30 seconds, more power to you.

Well, Keep enjoying being completely inefficient I guess. If you are able to be barely viable while using gear as a crutch, more power to you.

[zsedc]

Um even in sword oath with my current gear the highest crit I have ever landed was just over 450. My 3-tier fast-savage-rage combo nets me around 400 damage-ish with no crits. Im not sure how warrior damage is but I feel like it would be higher than that.

Are you implying sword oath got you 450dmg crit on an auto atk hit? Cos you do know sword oath only affect auto atk potency right? That sounds like incredibly high dmg for auto atks from not-relic weapon, forget warriors, I doubt any DD job can beat that kind of dmg.

[Kitru]

Um even in sword oath with my current gear the highest crit I have ever landed was just over 450. My 3-tier fast-savage-rage combo nets me around 400 damage-ish with no crits. Im not sure how warrior damage is but I feel like it would be higher than that.

Sword Oath adds an extra 50 potency attack with every auto-attack. Auto-attacks are designed to deal .8333 potency every GCD. Sword Oath actually increases the value based upon attack speed of the weapon: with a 2.2 weapon, Sword Oath adds an extra 57.4 potency for each GCD.

Sword Oath adds a lot more damage than you think. It's not "50% more damage from auto-attacks". It's a lot more.

[Hirosashi]

Sword Oath adds an extra 50 potency attack with every auto-attack. Auto-attacks are designed to deal .8333 potency every GCD. Sword Oath actually increases the value based upon attack speed of the weapon: with a 2.2 weapon, Sword Oath adds an extra 57.4 potency for each GCD.

Sword Oath adds a lot more damage than you think. It's not "50% more damage from auto-attacks". It's a lot more.

while that may be true I have never encountered a boss besides the demon wall that I could effectively tank in sword oath even then I still can lose threat against a decently geared bard if they go too crazy. The demon wall just does not do much damage that is the only reason it works. This is for end game content only though, prior to getting shield oath I always tanked in sword oath.

[Hirosashi]

Are you implying sword oath got you 450dmg crit on an auto atk hit? Cos you do know sword oath only affect auto atk potency right? That sounds like incredibly high dmg for auto atks from not-relic weapon, forget warriors, I doubt any DD job can beat that kind of dmg.

Sorry, I meant sword oath with fight or flight up, that crit was on a sprits within at full life. A crit on an auto attack is lucky to get over 100 lol.

[Kitru]

while that may be true I have never encountered a boss besides the demon wall that I could effectively tank in sword oath even then I still can lose threat against a decently geared bard if they go too crazy. The demon wall just does not do much damage that is the only reason it works. This is for end game content only though, prior to getting shield oath I always tanked in sword oath.

And I've never claimed that you're supposed to tank in Sword Oath, just like you shouldn't tank without Defiance on. The point was that a WAR outside of Defiance has no DPS advantage over a PLD in Sword Oath, just like a WAR in Defiance has no real DPS or enmity advantage over a PLD in Shield Oath.

[Hachiko]

while that may be true I have never encountered a boss besides the demon wall that I could effectively tank in sword oath even then I still can lose threat against a decently geared bard if they go too crazy. The demon wall just does not do much damage that is the only reason it works. This is for end game content only though, prior to getting shield oath I always tanked in sword oath.

Your gear is almost to the point where you can tank all of AK in sword oath. I can pretty much do AK outside of Defiance, but I usually turn it on for the last boss just to make my healer's life easier. Though this would be much easier with a premade party of 4. I would not try it in a solo duty finder queue.

Also, you should be putting out significantly more enmity in sword oath than shield oath.