Warriors in coil .. It's not happening

[ispano]

Ya but the war has self heals. So the shield from scholar acts as more mitigation for the war and the mitigation on the paladin makes it easy for a whm with slower cast speeds so the tank doesn't get spiked. You see where this is going now? Its more about synergizing the classes strength and weaknesses.

I knew where you were trying to go prior to this post. It still works better on a Paladin.

Also, Adloquium, the shield heal, is terribly inefficient unless it crits.

[Deculture]

Watching a Warrior try to tank Twintania is the cutest thing ever.

[Cocytus]

I knew where you were trying to go prior to this post. It still works better on a Paladin.

Suit yourself. To each their own. All I know is a main tank war and main heal sch and that has been my experience. Sure if you are going with the flat out meat shield argument then ya paladin would benefit just as much from the shield as the warrior, but all things being equal that how is game is designed. Paladin more beefy and less spike prone but warrior is more sustain healed and more damage output.

Does warrior need work? Hell yes but can warrior tank if they know what they are doing in turn 1? Also hell yes without a doubt.

I don't call a 400-500 hit shield inefficient. Besides you don't spam it you rotate it.

[ispano]

Suit yourself. To each their own. All I know is a main tank war and main heal sch and that has been my experience. Sure if you are going with the flat out meat shield argument then ya paladin would benefit just as much from the shield as the warrior, but all things being equal that how is game is designed. Paladin more beefy and less spike prone but warrior is more sustain healed and more damage output.

Does warrior need work? Hell yes but can warrior tank if they know what they are doing in turn 1? Also hell yes without a doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I play everything. I heal on both WHM and SCH, I tank on both WAR and PLD. I know their strengths and weaknesses. Putting a SCH on a WAR over a WHM doesn't really help you much. The shield from Adloquium, unless it covers more HP than the WAR has(ie WAR is at 6500/7000 and you use it on them to cap them off), isn't going to equal what a Cure II can do with equal gear. Now, if it crits, it can easily surpass what Cure II can do, potentially even offsetting the higher MP cost Adloquium has over Cure II. The main benefit to Adloquium is lower enmity since you actually heal for less, but get a similar benefit to having healed for more.

[TimelessShine]

How can a scholar heal a 7k hp warrior? I don't know much about heals but I thought scholar heals are weaker then a white mage. So wouldn't the scholar being burning through mp trying to even keep the his hp at least above half hp?

[ispano]

How can a scholar heal a 7k hp warrior? I don't know much about heals but I thought scholar heals are weaker then a white mage. So wouldn't the scholar being burning through mp trying to even keep the his hp at least above half hp?

Part of it is Sacred Soil for 10% mitigation, the fairy can cast 300 potency heals itself, but won't heal if they aren't below a certain percentage. You can manually tell them to heal, but it counts as you casting too so it interrupts your casting. Also Scholars have less mind than White Mages, so that doesn't help them. Also, they do have Lustrate for a 20% Max HP Heal, but again, only 3 times per 60 seconds, and only if they don't use the Aetherflow stacks for Sacred Soil or Energy Drain, and whatnot.

[ispano]

I don't call a 400-500 hit shield inefficient. Besides you don't spam it you rotate it.

It is innefficient. Adloquium has a Cure Potency of 300, for an MP cost of 319. Cure II has a Cure potency of 650 for an MP cost of 266. Let's assume those are actual raw healing numbers, and ignore the small mind difference the classes have. So, 300 heal, 300 shield for Adloquium and 650 heal for Cure II. Let's assume a crit is 50% more. Now this is where Adloquium shines. So 450 heal now due to crit, except the shield doubles for 900, so 1350 total. Cure II critting would only give you 975. So Adloquium is rather inneficent unless it crits and/or you use the shield to give HP beyond Max. Otherwise a Cure II will be superior.

[Cocytus]

It is innefficient. Adloquium has a Cure Potency of 300, for an MP cost of 319. Cure II has a Cure potency of 650 for an MP cost of 266. Let's assume those are actual raw healing numbers, and ignore the small mind difference the classes have. So, 300 heal, 300 shield for Adloquium and 650 heal for Cure II. Let's assume a crit is 50% more. Now this is where Adloquium shines. So 450 heal now due to crit, except the shield doubles for 900, so 1350 total. Cure II critting would only give you 975. So Adloquium is rather inneficent unless it crits and/or you use the shield to give HP beyond Max. Otherwise a Cure II will be superior.

This is the problem what you say is all well and true but what is the number one complaint about wars? They take spike to fast to heal. 300 heal + 300 shield if they aren't at 100% like you say you but you must include the contribution of the fairy as well. So 600 heal and 300 shield for 300 mp every 1-2 seconds sounds good in my book. Sure cure II is more potent but all the over cure is null and void.

I stand were I said before theorycraft aside the shield + heal + fairy heal in practical functional use is more efficient to warrior even ignoring the fact of their own self heals throw into the mix than Whm with the slower cast times. The Sch negates part of the warriors biggest weakness which is the spike due to lower mitigation. The whm can't do this. They can only heal through it.

How don't people see this for what it is the sch brings to the table the mitigation utility the warrior lacks?

[ispano]

This is the problem what you say is all well and true but what is the number one complaint about wars? They take spike to fast to heal. 300 heal + 300 shield if they aren't at 100% like you say you but you must include the contribution of the fairy as well. So 600 heal and 300 shield for 300 mp every 1-2 seconds sounds good in my book. Sure cure II is more potent but all the over cure is null and void.

I stand were I said before theorycraft aside the shield + heal + fairy heal in practical functional use is more efficient to warrior even ignoring the fact of their own self heals throw into the mix than Whm with the slower cast times. The Sch negates part of the warriors biggest weakness which is the spike due to lower mitigation. The whm can't do this. They can only heal through it.

How don't people see this for what it is the sch brings to the table the mitigation utility the warrior lacks?

You forget the Fairy won't heal unless they are low enough, it won't top anyone off, and if you command it to heal it must be done while you yourself are not casting.

My whole point here is that Except for using the shield to push them past max HP, a WHM can do everything the same, if not better. Even on a WAR. Basically if you use Adloquium on a WAR where it won't push him past his max HP, it's doing the same as a WHM would. Just, not as well most of the time.

Also, slower cast times? You may wish to check on that. WHM and SCH spells are all around the same cast times. Both get some form of spell speed buff as well.

[Flionheart]

So, are SCH's inferior end game healers? or just for WARs because they need so much?

Kinda disappointed that WHM pushes so much further ahead.