Now I've seen it all...someone offended for offering to help them?

[O-Deka-K]

I just don't understand people. I get that it's hard to interpret emotion/sarcasm/what-have-you through type alone, but when I explain boss fights it is genuinely in the best interest of the group and I never use any terms that could be misconstrued as condescending or hateful. I am a person who likes the most amount of detail possible, so I offer that in my explanations.

I like to describe myself as patient, but I also value efficiency. I like explanations that are clear and concise. If you describe every minute detail, I'll probably forget most of it.

Also, I like to learn by doing. I'm a visual learner. If you explain, I may or may not be able to picture it in my head. Just give me the salient points. If I see it in action, I'll get it. I may die a couple of times, but it'll eventually sink in and be a cakewalk the next time.

That being said, most people are impatient. If you put up too much to read, they simply won't read it at all.

[Vahlaria]

To be fair to the player, something along the lines of, "Hey, if you're new we'd be glad to explain the bosses." in party not /tell would have worked better. The way you're explaining it, the player probably felt set up.

[CurlyBruce]

To be fair to the player, something along the lines of, "Hey, if you're new we'd be glad to explain the bosses." in party not /tell would have worked better. The way you're explaining it, the player probably felt set up.

Can't send tells in instances, it had to be in party chat. If he was in level 30 gear he shouldn't have even been in the dungeon for this to happen. Gear Check can't come fast enough.

[SpiritedMare]

You need to understand that the more questions you ask somebody before getting to your point ("beating around the bush", as it were), the more likely they are to get/feel defensive, like "what are you getting at/is this a trap?".

You say you didn't actually have time to offer help, but you would have if you had made it your second question. Now, I'm not saying you should completely baby someone, but I mean this exchange probably would have gone much smoother:

Your first question: Have you done this before?
Their answer: No.
Your second question: "Okay then, do you need/would you like a quick rundown on the boss mechanics?"

Instead, this is what happened:

[continued in next post, geez this character limit is unforgiving. -.-]

[SpiritedMare]

Your first question: "Have you done this before?"
Their answer: "No."
Your second question: "Have you read any guides/watched any videos?" (essentially, "Have you done any homework?")
Their answer: "..."

I'm assuming their lack of response was because in their head they were already imagining your third question, which with that kind of lead-in probably sounded like "Well why should I be expected to carry someone who can't even be arsed to do their homework?!"

I'm certainly not trying to ride your ass or anything, I'm just saying it is very, very easy to misread intent when your voice has no tone or inflection in this particular medium. The shorter and sweeter you keep your questions, the less likely they are to be misinterpreted.

[O-Deka-K]

what is toxic, does it even have a clear definition? because it seems about as subjective as racism is nowadays.

Toxicity is not just someone being abusive. A community is described as "toxic" because it spreads.

For instance, someone says that they are new, and they get abandoned. That person becomes reluctant to say that they are new. Someone (who just wants to help) asks if they are new. Since they're afraid of being abandoned again, they clam up. Now both parties think that the other one is being rude!

People being abusive make other people put their defenses up. People with their defenses up may then be seen as easily offended, or even rude. They may even become abusive themselves. It makes people afraid to use the Duty Finder, or just stop using it entirely. This is what toxicity is.

[Nanga]

Your first question: "Have you done this before?"
Their answer: "No."
Your second question: "Have you read any guides/watched any videos?" (essentially, "Have you done any homework?")
Their answer: "..."

I'm assuming their lack of response was because in their head they were already imagining your third question, which with that kind of lead-in probably sounded like "Well why should I be expected to carry someone who can't even be arsed to do their homework?!"

I'm certainly not trying to ride your ass or anything, I'm just saying it is very, very easy to misread intent when your voice has no tone or inflection in this particular medium. The shorter and sweeter you keep your questions, the less likely they are to be misinterpreted.

I guess maybe read my reply on page 5, where I realized not many folks understand the language barrier many of us encounter as a one language-speaking person trying to communicate with, potentially, someone who also only speaks one language, but a different one. We use the auto-translate function to ask a very simply-worded question. Depending on how that person answers (or doesn't answer), and in what language or method (in auto-translate, for example), determines whether we respond more thoroughly or with the auto-translate again. I didn't receive a reply to the auto-translate first question for a long time, so it was asked again. The person finally answered, in decent enough English, that I tried to find out if they were familiar or not yet. But the exchange didn't go any further, as immediately afterwards the accident happened, and that's when they left with their response.

On the bright side I've also learned to trust in Google Translate, due to this thread, because it really is good at conveying much more complex thoughts and questions than what the auto-translate does from the get go, and has had quite a bit better results.

[EmeraldAres]

There is a right way and a wrong way to help new players.

If there is someone undergeared or new, I will usually either say "If anyone has any questions, let me know," or "If anyone needs help with boss strats, tell me" or something similar to this. On most bosses, new people will actually ask in party for tips in my experience, and then I'll freely give them. This approach is the most efficient. It's not about just being nice for the sake of being nice, it's presenting your help in a way that will most easily register with the largest number of people.

For boss strats, get to the point. Don't copy paste gigantic paragraphs, address each mechanic. Like on AK final boss, I'll say "watch head and tail, theyre dangerous. For catastrophe, hide behind statues. it comes from center of room, not boss, so hide accordingly. after catastrophe, kill the add. after two catastrophes, there will be purple leashes on people. the target drags the leash away from the party so the aoe doesnt hit everyone." usually, ill rapid fire each sentence so people know I'm talking and don't preemptively pull before I'm done. I'll usually fire off a "that's pretty much it" so people know I'm finished. If people ask any questions for clarification, quickly answer them. Often a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice if it's a yes or no question.

Never, ever, EVER bring up someone's gear, even if it's bad. Ignore it. If you can't clear the boss because of someone's gear level after a few wipes, people will either leave or you'll decide it's worth leaving. Usually I stay, though, because I often find that replacement groups in AK in particular can usually salvage a run very easily.

Remember, it's all about being clear, concise, efficient, and not coming across as a jerk. I hope this helps.

EDIT if this is about the language barrier, just do your best to convey the message. If it doesn't work, there's not much else you can do.

[EmeraldAres]

You need to understand that the more questions you ask somebody before getting to your point ("beating around the bush", as it were), the more likely they are to get/feel defensive, like "what are you getting at/is this a trap?".

You say you didn't actually have time to offer help, but you would have if you had made it your second question. Now, I'm not saying you should completely baby someone, but I mean this exchange probably would have gone much smoother:

Your first question: Have you done this before?
Their answer: No.
Your second question: "Okay then, do you need/would you like a quick rundown on the boss mechanics?"

Instead, this is what happened:

[continued in next post, geez this character limit is unforgiving. -.-]

This is also a very good point. Don't lead people on and on with inspection questions. They'll start to get insecure and are more likely to lash out.

[Tomiangu]

Interesting thread. I am new to most of the dungeons (lvl.30) and I am always making sure I tell the team that. Usually by asking if there is anything special to keep in mind, or I say it's my first run. Sometimes the description has some hints as well.
One time I made the mistake to continue killing the boss instead of the sword that had to be killed first. We wiped but no one was mad or kicked me. So far I was able to stay in.. ^^
Felt pretty bad about my mistake that cost everyone their life, so I am making sure I know what I am doing in there. If they kick me because I am new, ok with me, I am not rushing to 50. Making sure though my gear is up to par, to have the best chance. It helps being a DPS class so I don't have as much of a responsibility as a tank or healer.