Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[HiirNoivl]

You didn't seem to notice that the majority of that group was rocking relics...including the tank.

I tanked with a Garuda Scream and won. I could probably do it with an Ifrit Axe. It's not hard. It's just you need a team that will last 5 minutes. Unlike PLD, I can actually contribute to the Heart Phase.

[Conna]

I tanked with a Garuda Scream and won. I could probably do it with an Ifrit Axe. It's not hard. It's just you need a team that will last 5 minutes. Unlike PLD, I can actually contribute to the Heart Phase.

Your dps isn't actually much higher than a paladins as has been calculated. Honestly all a warrior gives is a more intensive healing requirement. Where careful timing of things like eye for an eye and virus can make a world of difference.

[HiirNoivl]

Your dps isn't actually much higher than a paladins as has been calculated. Honestly all a warrior gives is a more intensive healing requirement. Where careful timing of things like eye for an eye and virus can make a world of difference.

I can't take statements like this seriously any more. Sorry, not after parse results.

I'd like to see some of your parses.

I'm going to guess any difference between you and PLD's is explained by the fact that you tend to run some STR accessories and have 20-30 points in STR in addition to having a bunch of crit materia, whereas a PLD will be running 30 vit, and all tanking accessories.



From my experience comparing myself to other PLD tanks we're within about 10 dps of each other, and I'm heavily invested in STR. If I shifted all of that to VIT the difference would nearly vanish entirely.

Go back a few pages.

Please keep in mind that I wear the exact same gear sometime on my PLD and still Parse way lower. There's no way my PLD even with my WAR gear can keep up.

For the record I parsed my crit rate without Wrath V or Internal Release with just 30 extra crit rate and got 7.22% which matches the Valk-Dancing Mad calculator. As far as crit rate from the actual stat goes it's accurate. The only thing that remains to be seen is whether % Crit Boost from abilities is a flat bonus or a multiplier. Judging by the fact that other abilities that increase a stat by a % (Berserk/DivineSeal/Foresight/etc.) actually update the character screen to show the new stat I would argue that the % Crit Boosts are a flat boost which is why the calculator is wrong when you add those in. Of course it's all just conjecture until someone parses it properly.

Don't look at me. I just hit the button, slam on some mobs, and then screen shot the results. If you can "parse properly" go ahead and post.

I don't think I am making myself clear.

I am not saying that keeping Wrath stacks is bad. I am saying that it still doesn't compete with Paladin even if you stack Crit. And I can see Crit being THAT good for you only if you use Inner Beast. Every time you don't use the new and improved Critting Inner Beast (TM) you are not doing better than Paladin. And we don't know if by using Inner Beast we are doing better anyhow.

Also Blood Bath doesn't benefit from Wrath. Your raised crit will benefit Blood Bath however.

Please show me numbers of your self healing with crit and the sources of that self healing and post them here. I would like to see a parse from Titan and what your parser says about your crit rate during the encounter.

I checked my parser and noticed that the average heal tick from Blood Bath is about 25 with my current gear and Ifrit weapon. Every 90 seconds, with your alleged 33ish% crit, I would get 12.5 HP heal on top of it. So one every three Blood Bath ticks I get that extra. I still don't see that making much difference.

Vengeance reflects 50 every time you get attacked. I don't know if that can crit. Can you show me a parse that shows that it can crit? Blood Bath, applied to Vengeance will heal for 25% of that damage, and considering that's small damage, it's also a small heal.

Steel Cyclone: you advocate keeping Wrath stacks but then you drop them for Storm Cyclone. I guess you use it only when Infuriate is up, otherwise you are dropping your Wrath and receiving less healing from others while AOEing, and Overpower could do the job instead. It's also spammable. I never felt the need to kill targets one by one, I felt overpower + Bloodbath kept me alive, but this is not something I can honestly say will be true for adds on hard battles because I haven't done hard modes that have adds.

In the mean time Strength has buffed every single of those Blood Bath ticks, as well as Steel Cyclone, as well as Inner Beast, as well as Second Wind etc.

I still don't see how stacking crit is king vs stacking strength.

If you are capped on an item and can't meld any more strength into it, by ALL MEANS go crit. Otherwise strength.

Vengeance

Compete with PLD in what regard? With DPS, there's no question that it assists. If you're talking about percentage of HP healed, with Wrath V that is upped 15% and PLD's Shield Oath reduces Damage Dealt 20%. Which is plenty to "compete with PLD" for mitigation and that's without your even actively doing anything. That's why it's important that if you lose that buff there has to be a really good reason. You should not use your Inner Beast just because its up.

Wrath V benefits your Bloodbath because it's raises your over all Crit Rate. You will Crit more on all the damage you deal meaning that you will heal more with Bloodbath active. So it does benefit from Wrath.

Sadly, I can't find a Parser that accurately measures the healing I get from "You absorb" messages. The "You absrob" messages are mushed in with the healing I receive from WHMs and from Second Wind. Sometimes it doesn't show up at all. I can only get a feel for how much I'm healing myself for unless I go through the log with calculator, which I may just have to do at this point. But if you're curious maybe you can do it too and we'll share results.

Regarding Steel Cyclone: I'm not sure if you read that part, but when you're in a situation where you're dealing with a large group of trash mobs, Steel Cyclone can A) Heal you just as much as Inner Beast and B) kill the mobs faster before you melt like a snowflake. I'm not sure if you read that part or you're just taking it out of context. I'm not advocating using it on Titan or any other primal. OverPower takes TP and you can use it, but it's better to keep your TP for other things and use Steel Cyclone instead.

You can Crit Second Wind. My highest Crit for second Wind was 1035. It was pretty nice. (I had Berserk active). So you benefit from Crit Rate in this way as well.

Please keep in mind that there are always ways to get around the hits you take when you use Wrath V.

If you want your Crit Buff, you can use Internal Release AFTER you use your Wrath instead of stacking it with Wrath V to keep your Crit Buff. If you want to keep your self healing buff after you use your Wrath, you can use Convalecence or Mantra so that you keep your Self healing buff after using your Wrath.

And of course there's always Infuriate.

I think this is what Yoshi P was referring to when he said you need "additionals" to make WAR really strong.

[Hachiko]

I can't take statements like this seriously any more. Sorry, not after parse results.

I'd like to see some of your parses.

I'm going to guess any difference between you and PLD's is explained by the fact that you tend to run some STR accessories and have 20-30 points in STR in addition to having a bunch of crit materia, whereas a PLD will be running 30 vit, and all tanking accessories.

From my experience comparing myself to other PLD tanks we're within about 10 dps of each other, and I'm heavily invested in STR. If I shifted all of that to VIT the difference would nearly vanish entirely.

And other enemies whose facing is important too, maybe intelligent usage of Holmgang can be useful?

It COULD be useful, but the only boss after the WP slime that isn't immune to Bind is Garuda, and she's already a pushover as far as tanking goes.

And even if it could be used like that, being unable to move for 6 seconds is a huge risk if you time it improperly (miss it on Demon Wall for example and you will end up bound in the slime at the back).