A word to the Tanks out there.

[Blazn]

It sucks for the other decent players but some of us leave instead of dealing with the head ache, roll a tank if you want to know what I'm talking about.

[darkvision]

If you have no intentions of running a complete Duty dungeon, don't sign up.

i will agree with this, however bad runs result in someone leaving. i only leave a dungeon as PLD if its really really bad

If you have no intentions of leading the Duty dungeon, don't sign up.

As level up my BRD i lead all dungeons as a BRD especially for the newer players. i make macro's with instructions for the dungeon. I actually hate leading when on PLD tho

If you have no intentions of marking the mobs in order of kill and cc, don't sign up.

A tank should only mark a kill order, no need when running with experienced players or a high DD group. CC markers is not the tank's job. if a BRD binds a mob they should mark it, if a BLM sleeps they should mark it. See the pattern?

I have seen bad tanks while running my BRD through dungeons but i offer advice, teach them, let them try it out.

[Azostar]

I don't really care for marking unless it's important that a target is interrupted, I'm really not going to mark every single group of mobs it's just more trouble than it's worth.

[Ehayte]

The tank that doesn't need training wheels is one that can keep the threat and survive despite what the DDs and healers are doing.

Uhg.

3 mobs alive doing 100 DPS to me each. If they are killed 1 at a time in 20 seconds each
300 DPS for 20 seconds
200 DPS for 20 seconds
100 DPS for 20 seconds
AVG of 200 DPS / sec

3 mobs up, killed at the exact same time:
300 DPS for 60 seconds
AVG of 300 DPS / sec

By assisting through targets (assuming there are 3) you have basically put a debuff on the encounter that reduces enemy damage by 1/3. That is literally the most powerful ability I have ever heard of in any game.

Also, I'm 90% sure that there are just a couple people trolling in this thread right now. Tanks, just use single-mark, as a lot of people have mentioned.

[Size]

I would like to see you tank 3-4 mobs when every dps goes all out on a different target from the start on. I really would like.

First, if this is happening, you are failing as a tank already. You should be out in the front leading and/or instructing the group. But if it does happen you can easily gain control with swift action. Pop F&F, Bloodbath and a defensive CD or 2, hit flash 3~4 times to gain initial hate. Then do a round robin spamming each mob with RoH. RoH generates a lot of hate even unmodified by the combo chain. If you need hate fast and provoke is down, doing 3xRoH is normally enough to overcome anything the DD or Healer may be putting out.

[Size]

Training wheels? Okay, crazy lady. Hey, I bet you don't use Shield Oath, cooldowns or food either, do you? Because I'm sure only a real tank can get away with not using any of that sissy nonsense. Hell, why even need healers, right? They're just for the pansy tanks.

Look, if you need to use them go right ahead. I'm not knocking you. I'm just saying that by the time you're solo tanking speed runs in CM.... they're kind of extraneous.

[Uncia]

What you mention about tanks, I have seen with healers. I had done three consecutive dungeons and all three times the healer baled.

It doesn't matter what class/job you are, if you get in queue for an instance stick it out and do your job not someone elses!!

[Zyltas]

Now as a tank in the past I have always lead or co-lead raids as the MT, I tend to by hyper aware of whats going on around me and constantly looking all over the screen and moving my camera to see as much as possible.

Even when something is not my fault in a group wipe (like the DPS runs off and pulls more mobs) I tend to shoulder the blame, just so the group can move on. However one of my biggest pet peeves is when a DPS feels the need to constantly run ahead of me and runs into mobs, then blames it on me going to slow because I wasn't running away from the before everything was dead.

Also as a DPS or a healer I get annoyed when I am sitting there waiting on a tank to mark things 1 2 3 4 etc... it slows things way down and makes groups annoyingly slow sometimes, once you have a primary target pull, everything else sorts itself out.

As a tank I stick out a dungeon all the way through, I also rarely ever use the DF and pick up DPS on my server to join me instead, I find this helps make for a better group as people are held more accountable when playing with people on their server.

I also will lead groups, if I have not done a zone but someone else has I am all for them giving pointers on the dungeon, if no one has done it I do my best to muddle through and take responsibility for the bad and good that happens in the dungeon.

Marking I think is just stupid. I mark the mob I am currently attacking as the primary target because it helps the CC know which mob NOT to cc, and the DPS which target to kill. Now I come from oldschool tanking mentality (Started back in EQ1 in 99). I think marking is silly and people can assist the tank and get a target that way.

[Ehayte]

First, if this is happening, you are failing as a tank already. You should be out in the front leading and/or instructing the group.

How is "leading and instructing the group" any less of "training wheels" than marking? Marking is just a more efficient way to train/instruct the group without easy access to a fell keyboard or a voice chat.

Look, if you need to use them go right ahead. I'm not knocking you. I'm just saying that by the time you're solo tanking speed runs in CM.... they're kind of extraneous.

But you are knocking her by saying that she couldn't possible be great (only average at best) because she uses marks. Also, speed running CM is very very different from running a normal dungeon, which is the only thing fledgling tanks know, and what the thread evolved into giving advice for.

[Serephine]

1. I totally agree. If the tank (or anyone) doesn't plan on completing the dungeon- DON'T SIGN UP! It's really annoying when people just bail. Especially when we waited so long to get in (DPS 30+ minute wait)!

2. IT IS A TANKS JOB TO LEAD! The tank should always go first, as the enemies will see them first, and they fight can get going. If the tank has to remove hate from another player, then the healer needs to heal the DPS, etc.

3. It's not hard to mark targets and if the tank can't do it- let someone know so they can. Nothing is more annoying than everyone fighting something different, then someone dying. If the tank marks the mobs then dps can sleep the enemies that aren't being fought.

Honestly, we're asking for a way to fight so everyone can do their job without a hitch.

I main BLM. But my hubby is a TANK- so I have a good understanding of how it works.