Graphics vs Aesthetics

[DarkReed]

Thank you Gramual for that.
I can see what you are saying, but right now i does feel more like I am playing a Tech Demo of an MMO.
They have pushed up the graphics side of the game, in regards to Charactor, equipment and mob design.
But yet, to build the vast open world areas, they have used a copy and paste design. Which to me kills the Aesthetics.
The aesthetics in this game are more centred around the charactor, and less on the world.
Isn't it the world that is ment to embrace you?

And Tonka, thank you, but alas the youtube link isnt working for me.. lol
What is the title so I can seach for it?

[Tonka]

And Tonka, thank you, but alas the youtube link isnt working for me.. lol
What is the title so I can seach for it?

Most peculiar. It is titled, "The City of Lion's Arch".

[Abriael]

Example of taking marginal graphical power and turning them into pleasing aesthetics to create an inviting environment despite being designed to run on less powerful machines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MzZyZ-ty8

And when you see the same area from a player's point of view, it looks like normal Korean MMO fare released five years ago, with stretched low resolution textures, grass badly glued on the flat ground and all that. The actual gameplay videos of GW2 (and of any game that use the same camera tricks in their trailers, which means pretty much all of them) are much, much less flattering.

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

I don't see why people get so bent up over extra credits, they bring up important things about game design and the people involved with them. Things that need to be discussed so we can grow and evolve as a system.

Because they know absolutely nothing about game development, and ramble about points that normally have no reflection in reality, completely ignoring the actual problems that come with actual game development, slapping around badly thought-out hearsay as it was actually true, just to give the impression that they "know better" while they don't.

Which is pretty much the same for the whole Escapist staff, when they aren't actually paid to purposedly (and artificially) bash the work of game developers "for the lulz" even when it's not nearly warranted or justified.

[Tonka]

And when you see the same area from a player's point of view, it looks like normal Korean MMO fare released five years ago, with stretched low resolution textures, grass badly glued on the flat ground and all that. The actual gameplay videos of GW2 are much, much less flattering.

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

ArenaNet is an American company. The game is not being made/produced by a Korean company. NCSoft is not making this game. I know you've already been told this before...

As for the discussion at hand, they are taking less powerful graphics designed to run on lower-end machines and making it look inviting. Some aspects may seem dated after looking at a Miqo'te running around, but they manage to make it look great.

Creativity/art direction > OMG THIS GRASS LOOKS SO MUCH NICER but there's nothing else to look at beyond vast plains of nothingness sprinkled with Nutbiters.

Speaking of the grass, it actually sways when you run through it in GW2. B|

[Abriael]

ArenaNet is an American company. The game is not being made/produced by a Korean company. NCSoft is not making this game. I know you've already been told this before...

What part of "it looks like normal Korean MMO fare" did you miss?
Asian-style badly rendered characters completaly lacking detail, buildings that look like they are made of cardboard, environments that look great zoomed out and flying, but that look lame when you actually walk into them, poor interiors lacking decoration (for the few buildings that actually do have an interior) = Normal Korean MMO fare.

Creativity/art direction > OMG THIS GRASS LOOKS SO MUCH NICER but there's nothing else to look at beyond vast plains of nothingness sprinkled with Nutbiters.

When creativity and art direction are not supported by graphical power, they still look like crap on today's games.

OMG this grass is so creative! But it still looks like a piece of cutout cardboard glued on a completely flat ground with an horrible low rez texture that completely ruins the atmosphere.

Again. Gameplay videos of the same areas aren't flattering at all. But go on being tricked by carefully staged trailers that you'll never see in the game if it floats your boat.

Speaking of the grass, it actually sways when you run through it in GW2. B|

And it still looks like pixelated crap glued on the ground.

But back on the video at hand, I started laughing when they said that Killzine 2 is a game lacking in aesthetics. It pretty much goes to show that they don't even know what "aesthetics" means, considering that the art direction of the whole killzone series is one of the best in the genre.

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

Pretty random comment considering that FFXIV is one of the MMO games for which the scenic flycam has been used the least in promotion.

Abriael, if you dont like where this discussion is going.. why be a part of it. So far you have seamed to tackle this from the mindset of that you don't like The Escapist, so therefore everything about this thread is wrong. But as of yet, you havn't realy commented on the descussion at hand.

Oh but I did. The fact that I didn't say what you like/expect to read doesn't mean that I didn't.
Points are simple:
1) they don't know crap about aesthetics, as much as they don't know crap about game development (lol @ Killzone 2 lacking in aesthetics)
2) aesthetics tend to go down the drain when they're not supported by graphical power. Many Korean and Korean-like MMORPGs that look great from an artificially staged distance and look like a punch in the eye when you actually walk in them are a perfect example of this.

[Naqaj]

Pretty random comment considering that FFXIV is one of the MMO games for which the scenic flycam has been used the least in promotion.

Less random once you realize in the actual game that same trick turns badly scripted cutscenes into GRAPHICALLY AMAZING STORY EVENTS!



On topic of GW2, you're of course fully entitled to your opinion about it's graphical appearance, but you shouldn't try to sell it to us as anything remotely resembling a fact.



edit: ah, dammit, I fell for it again, didn't I?

[Abriael]

Less random once you realize in the actual game that same trick turns badly scripted cutscenes into GRAPHICALLY AMAZING STORY EVENTS!

Cutscenes in FFXIV very rarely use the flycam trick. They're normally quite zoomed in into the scene, and definitely don't try to hide flaws. Try again.

On topic of GW2, you're of course fully entitled to your opinion about it's graphical appearance, but you shouldn't try to sell it to us as anything remotely resembling a fact.

Too bad that it's a fact, gameplay videos are there for everyone to see, as much as the fact that they look no more impressive than any game developed in korea years ago, and lose most if not all of the "omg!" value of the flycam scenes. Expectedly so.
I'm sure GW2 fans coming here to promote it don't like to hear it, but that doesn't make it less of a fact.

Mind you, I fully plan to play GW2 at release, this doesn't mean i can be blinded by simple promotional tricks that have been used in the industry for years. I won't play it for the graphics/art, anyway.

[Anty]

ArenaNet is an American company. The game is not being made/produced by a Korean company. NCSoft is not making this game. I know you've already been told this before...

As for the discussion at hand, they are taking less powerful graphics designed to run on lower-end machines and making it look inviting. Some aspects may seem dated after looking at a Miqo'te running around, but they manage to make it look great.

Creativity/art direction > OMG THIS GRASS LOOKS SO MUCH NICER but there's nothing else to look at beyond vast plains of nothingness sprinkled with Nutbiters.

Speaking of the grass, it actually sways when you run through it in GW2. B|

Grass... i think the grass/bushes implemented in ffxiv look incredibliy bad and even with 32X antialising they look like shit.
The fact that they made the HUGE mistake of using so many alpha textures (retarded) that only are ok when 4X supersampled says it all... the game is only HD and next gen on the character models. Its AWESOME what they did there.. but the rest... is really not good. No bumbmapping, no proper lighthing, nothing in the world casts shadows (only the npcs and pcs) ... and even WRONG shadows a lot, so it happens that facint a lightsource the shadows actually points directly towards it.. *sigh*

An an HD game has grass moving and even some grass physics reacting .. but not static ugly looking grass pixle thingy....
I don't need HD textures if they get "destroyed" by bad looking other items/textures/vegetation.

IF... then everything has to look awesome. not just some parts... I rather have good lighting and shadows (usually makes a much better all over appearence then HD textures vs ok textures)

[Naqaj]

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

[DarkReed]

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

lol.. and thank you.

I am not saying the video is right or wrong..
I use the Video of extra Credits to make me think.

If I had not been watching that series. I would be bashing this game left right and centre. But at the end of they day. There are a lot of factors that come in to game devlopment.

This series gives me the option to question what I currently think. And some times raise a question.

In this case, I am questioning in a sense, did SE go out of their way to try and make an techncially visually impressive game, and in doing so, the world they was creating got lost.

Abriael, if you dont like where this discussion is going.. why be a part of it. So far you have seamed to tackle this from the mindset of that you don't like The Escapist, so therefore everything about this thread is wrong. But as of yet, you havn't realy commented on the descussion at hand.