OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[FinagleABagel]

I agree, although i'm sure someone will point out that df means its entirely possible for two sch to end up in the same raid. Then again, if you are trying to use df to clear end game content i think that presents a different problem.

Right, the DF is clearly not used for end game content. Yoshi has even said that he wants to make the community talk to one another to clear the end game content. That means shouting in Mor Dhona for parties.

[FinagleABagel]

In this capacity we behave more like a bard than a stand alone healer. I'd roll a bard if I wanted to buff someone else.

And how can you say that the fact sch/sch sucks doesn't raise balance concerns to you? ><

Because you won't be rolling BCoB via DF. I also think sch/sch can heal through Titan HM - the last of the potentially DF-able fights. I'd say sch/sch is roughly equal in inefficiencies as whm/whm - just in different directions. The scholar duo lacks throughput and the white mage duo has too much. The two clearly benefit from each other.

If you need two WHMs spamming Med II constantly, I think your party has larger problems than the general lack of sheer scholar HP throughput.

I also wasn't aware that a bard could help a WHM manage his/her aggro or reduce the instance of over heal.

EDIT:

The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

[ApolloGenX]

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

I haven't seen any disagreement with pet fixes. That issue is pretty much agreed upon. It needs to be fixed.

The issue of stronger AEs has been addressed by pointing out the different strengths/weaknesses of the two classes.

That you choose to ignore the reasons does not create an obligation to eliminate the differences.

Your criticisms that I don't have experience become a non-issue when you have coil running scholars telling you that you are wrong.

If you have 2 SCH and 2 WHMs, one of each will be benched. IF you have 2 WHMs and 1 SCH, a WHM will be benched. IF you have 2 SCH and 1 WHM a SCH will be benched.

Working as intended. The only time that you will have 2 WHMs or 2 SCH is if you have nothing else. That has nothing to do with class balance and everything to do with having no other choices.

[Eriane]

The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

We get your virus too...(that sounds weird) Lol no i'm not being helpful i know. Yea even whm have issues with stoneskin and its better than its cross class version. The fact that we get two of the sch damage mitigation cross class skills is a little unfair.

But that being said it also points out that our skills in general tend to be a bit meh because of the raw healing. While scholars get more useful tools.

[Salazar00]

I'v read somewhere before initialy start playing that Scholars would be a healer/heavy support job and Whit Mages would be a healing class. Thats why I choose Scholars. I have no problem in beeing the support in a team (it's something someone has to do anyway), as a matter of fact, I realy enjoy it. I have no problem in beeing there to make the job of everyone easier, I have no reached the max level yet, but a 3 years healing experience in healing showed me that if its easy its boring. I personally dont care if Sucor is weaker than Medica, as long as it gets the job done w/o me getting completely oom, and by completely I mean completely, cause why the hell would you end up a fight with extra mana?!?! You could used that mana to make a safer fight to everyone shielding them up.

Thats just my opinion as a casual player.

[FinagleABagel]

But that being said it also points out that our skills in general tend to be a bit meh because of the raw healing. While scholars get more useful tools.

Good point. Virus with E4E is extremely potent. The only difference between the mitigation is Sacred Soil, which isn't exactly a wonderful spell (considering CDs vs. Aetherflow CD).

I can see why they don't give us the AoE heals from WHM, because that largely defeats the theory behind a SCH. I like how monks can cross class their healing buff. I like how WHMs can get our mitigation abilities, because they matter and are needed. If you are a WHM and you don't have Virus and E4E - shame on you.

I don't want WHMs to lose those cross-class abilities, but it does cause a situation where SCHs get shafted. Perhaps in it's place we should be able to pick 1-2 traits? You'd have to be careful with that since traits are potent stuff.

[Kalagg]

Snip

You are beyond spot on for your description/explanation, unfortunately there are way to many reactive healers trying to play this class. It doesn't make you a bad healer it just makes you a bad scholar player. And we all get to suffer listening to these whiny fools when they could all do us this huge solid and unequip that grimoire they have in their characters hand and instead go get themselves a nice conjurer arm.

The conjurers/white mages are not derailing this thread, they are coming in & pointing out the huge flaws with the logic you keep using. Most of you playing a scholar should not be playing scholar.

I applaud those of you that keep showing these bad players that they are bad and they need to go play a different class/job.

[Eriane]

I don't want WHMs to lose those cross-class abilities, but it does cause a situation where SCHs get shafted. Perhaps in it's place we should be able to pick 1-2 traits? You'd have to be careful with that since traits are potent stuff.

Honestly, i don't see why stoneskin isn't buffed to its traited potency so that sch can also have the 18% shield and give white mages a better trait. Or not even better just different. I suppose the reasoning is that stoneskin at 18% plus sch shields might be too op? No because sch and whm in a raid can do it. Fancy that.

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

[FinagleABagel]

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

No shields stack, a stronger shield will overwrite a weaker one but not vice versa. Usually its most effective succor/aldo instead of aldo/succor since the tank will likely take 300 damage between the cast times. However, you won't be screwing yourself out of efficiency too badly if you want to aldo/succor to mitigate tank damage upfront.

That's sometimes a better strategy when you know the AoE spike is going to hit everyone, including the tank quite hard. It'll buy you time to double up on a succor, if need be. Example being Mountain Buster into AoE on Titan HM. You really want to Aldo mitigate that one.

[ApolloGenX]

Honestly, i don't see why stoneskin isn't buffed to its traited potency so that sch can also have the 18% shield and give white mages a better trait. Or not even better just different. I suppose the reasoning is that stoneskin at 18% plus sch shields might be too op? No because sch and whm in a raid can do it. Fancy that.

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

It has a pretty stiff cast time and cost... I wouldn't mind giving the SS trait to scholars and getting a different trait... maybe one that increased range of Cure 3 to make it actually worth casting...