Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[Onyxys]

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

Did you play Tera? I did, and I was playing by warrior- I was a very nice warrior. That is why I choosed monk- I have enough skills to play by this class. I know how to move, my reaction is the best, I know monk's rotation- be sure, So dont think, please, that Im stupid

I repeat once more- I think, that monk as melee DD class as compared with other DD classes weak and need to be rebalanced

[Risbyn]

Any chance of getting a detailed parse of your own damage? Your gear is pretty insane (multi-melded HQ crafted items) and monk scaling atm is the best in the game. Your crit rate in these parses seems very high as well, even with Bootshine and Internal release a 25% crit rate seems super high.
What food do you use?

The actual parse is gone, these are just screenshots. I'll upload a detailed one later when we go do something like Titan. Or I can just do a quick dummy test. As for food, I use Buttons in a Blanket.

Also, these are specifically non-LB numbers because I knew people would ask this.

[HazyMoon]

Monks are indeed pretty beast as is. I have 1 piece of DL (ring) and a few pieces from AK. Everything else is AF gear and I'm using my Grand Company weapon. I'll admit, I was struggling to put out decent dps; however, another monk helped me out a bit and we've been theory crafting ever since. Now, I can easily pull 130-140+ dps on a boss fight - non-LB numbers. I even hit 162 on Hydra last night; however, I don't have any proof of that right now, but I'd be willing to upload pictures of the parser when I get home later today.

I can only imagine this dps going way up once I get more DL gear and as my weapon improves.
It's all in the rotation.

[Risbyn]

Rysbyn is right: MNKs can be competitive in quite a few fights. But we need a few tweaks and some polish to really become consistently competitive.

PS - please indicate if you used LB in those fights. Because if you did, we need to subtract 25-30 DPS on each of those values.

I wouldn't be against a few tweaks and polish at all. Everyone could use some quality of life tweaks. However, the people saying that Monks are "weak" are people who are not being honest with themselves as far as their playstyle/skill goes. There was a reason why Monk's Fist of Fire was reduced to 5% damage from 10% and it wasn't because the developers felt Monks were weak. The real numbers say otherwise. Does this mean that I want people to stack Monk? Of course not, that would never work. I'm advocating that a balanced party of Ranged/Magic/Melee will get through all content in the game if they are good enough. We have a Monk in the Free Company that solo silenced Turn 2 ADS because they didn't have any Bards on. It is up to individual performance if they're a hindrance to the party or not. Not the Class/Job.

[JokingCat]

I wouldn't be against a few tweaks and polish at all. Everyone could use some quality of life tweaks. However, the people saying that Monks are "weak" are people who are not being honest with themselves as far as their playstyle/skill goes. There was a reason why Monk's Fist of Fire was reduced to 5% damage from 10% and it wasn't because the developers felt Monks were weak. The real numbers say otherwise. Does this mean that I want people to stack Monk? Of course not, that would never work. I'm advocating that a balanced party of Ranged/Magic/Melee will get through all content in the game if they are good enough. We have a Monk in the Free Company that solo silenced Turn 2 ADS because they didn't have any Bards on. It is up to individual performance if they're a hindrance to the party or not. Not the Class/Job.

can you show your rotation?

[Risbyn]

can you show your rotation?

I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. Gimme a moment to edit.

Boss Fight Rotation



Preliminary Rotation



Start on Boss's flank. This is how you should start every boss fight unless there is a DPS check part of the fight in which case you should save this rotation for when the DPS check happens.

This will start you off with full stacked Greased Lightning as well as +10% Damage before you move onto your Primary Rotation.

Remember to eat food and use Fists of Fire.

Touch of Death

Activate Perfect Balance

Snap Punch(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank) -> Demolish
Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

2. Primary Rotation

Personally, I do like using Blood for Blood + Internal Release upon the first application of Demolish/Touch of Death in the Primary Rotation so that they tick for harder.Otherwise, use Blood for Blood/Internal Release on cooldown at your discretion. Refresh Touch of Death when it falls off, preferably when you're fully buffed. Keep in mind that Touch of Death and Demolish DoTs will not refresh if it's weaker than what's already on the mob. So if you've popped Blood for Blood and did Touch of Death, a non-buffed Touch of Death will not override the buffed one.

This rotation assumes at least 491 Skill Speed and full stacked Greased Lightning. Otherwise, replace all instances of True Strike with Twin Snakes. The reason for this is because if you have less than 491 Skill Speed + fully stacked Greased Lightning, your Twin Snakes 10% damage buff will fall off when using True Strike.

Touch of Death (ONLY start if you don't do the preliminary rotation)

Dragon Kick(Flank)[Bootshine if this is your second cycle] -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish (This overrides the one you used in the Preliminary Rotation because Demolish in the Preliminary does not apply the final stack of Greased Lightning to the DoT)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

There is a window in which Demolish hasn't worn off yet and your Demolish rotation is up. In which case, you would use Snap Punch and use Demolish in the following rotation.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT DPS

You MUST be able to use your Weapon Skill in the positions stated on the Weapon Skill. It's okay to miss a couple because of AoE or dodging, but it's a huge DPS loss if you stand in one position and never move. There is some incredibly hard DPS checks in the game and being able to output the maximum amount is a must. Bosses have some tail attacks, but all tail attacks that I've seen in all content has a cooldown. You can run behind the boss, proc the tail attack, move out and then move back in to do your from behind rotation.

___________________________________

I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

[EasymodeX]

can you show your rotation?

After you rush 3 stacks of greased lightning (TW = twin strike, DM = demolish),

DK
TW
TD
DM
BS
TW
FR
ID
SP
DK
TW
ID
DM
BS
TW
FR
TD
SP
DK
TW
ID
DM
BS
TW
FR
ID
SP

Rinse and repeat gg easy np.

[ilJumperMT]

I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. Gimme a moment to edit.

Boss Fight Rotation



Preliminary Rotation



Start on Boss's flank. This is how you should start every boss fight unless there is a DPS check part of the fight in which case you should save this rotation for when the DPS check happens.

This will start you off with full stacked Greased Lightning as well as +10% Damage before you move onto your Primary Rotation.

Remember to eat food and use Fists of Fire.

Touch of Death

Activate Perfect Balance

Snap Punch(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank) -> Demolish
Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

2. Primary Rotation

Personally, I do like using Blood for Blood + Internal Release upon the first application of Demolish/Touch of Death in the Primary Rotation so that they tick for harder.Otherwise, use Blood for Blood/Internal Release on cooldown at your discretion. Refresh Touch of Death when it falls off, preferably when you're fully buffed. Keep in mind that Touch of Death and Demolish DoTs will not refresh if it's weaker than what's already on the mob. So if you've popped Blood for Blood and did Touch of Death, a non-buffed Touch of Death will not override the buffed one.

This rotation assumes at least 491 Skill Speed and full stacked Greased Lightning. Otherwise, replace all instances of True Strike with Twin Snakes. The reason for this is because if you have less than 491 Skill Speed + fully stacked Greased Lightning, your Twin Snakes 10% damage buff will fall off when using True Strike.

Touch of Death (ONLY start if you don't do the preliminary rotation)

Dragon Kick(Flank) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish (This overrides the one you used in the Preliminary Rotation because Demolish in the Preliminary does not apply the final stack of Greased Lightning to the DoT)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

There is a window in which Demolish hasn't worn off yet and your Demolish rotation is up. In which case, you would use Snap Punch and use Demolish in the following rotation.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT DPS

You MUST be able to use your Weapon Skill in the positions stated on the Weapon Skill. It's okay to miss a couple because of AoE or dodging, but it's a huge DPS loss if you stand in one position and never move. There is some incredibly hard DPS checks in the game and being able to output the maximum amount is a must. Bosses have some tail attacks, but all tail attacks that I've seen in all content has a cooldown. You can run behind the boss, proc the tail attack, move out and then move back in to do your from behind rotation.

___________________________________

I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

[Tribunus]

Thanks thats really helpful, I think a lot of people are having trouble with the rotation coupled with the required movement.

Do you not use impulse drive or fracture at all? Would it not be possible to replace true strike with impulse drive? Its much greater potency I feel outweighs the 5% chance to crit.

Or drop true strike and weave in impulse drive between your back to flank movements?

[LenLeander]

I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. ......
I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

This information is gold for any wannabe Monk dps (like me)....but it kind of prove the OP's point...
This looks insanely difficult...
If this is the thing to do to be on par with a range class dps no wonder why monks are not wanted in parties... The average player (me included) won't be able to do this. So giving you can't bet your next PUG will be a top notch dps player, better choose a ranged player that will do the same damage output with a more simple rotation and average player skills.

IMO you should be able to use a subpar rotations (keeping the same positioning for example) and still be on par with range DPS. and of course for hardcore like you seem to be blow up the meter when you perform the rotation perfectly...