I'm done with Titan.

[Rhas]

this isn't a new thing for MMO's -- leveling in most games is just as mindless of an endeavor as grinding fates is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these MMO classes - you can learn one in a day, easily. you're still using your abilities to kill things during FATEs -- same as questing. dungeons do teach you a bit about teamwork, but as is apparent, people are still going to make it to endgame not having a clue.. even with the forced story dungeons.

I know they will, but I couldn't help but comment when a poster said fates have absolutely nothing to do with bad people at endgame as it is just an enabler to let people playing poorly keep playing poorly, just be faster at it hehehe

There is no easy cure for the "i want it now with no work involved" people. Those people exist everywhere.

Fortunately I have a great FC where we can all play as we wish with lots of tanks and healers. Not too hard to get what needs to be done finished.

[Alish]

I know they will, but I couldn't help but comment when a poster said fates have absolutely nothing to do with bad people at endgame as it is just an enabler to let people playing poorly keep playing poorly, just be faster at it hehehe

There is no easy cure for the "i want it now with no work involved" people. Those people exist everywhere heheh

Fortunately I have a great FC where we can all play as we wish with lots of tanks and healers. Not too hard to get what needs to be done finished.

You're in some serious denial. Please stop lying to yourself.

[BlaiseArath]

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

This is an age old discussion and personally I feel it has very little to do with how fast you exp. But there is some merit to it, though its not in speed of exp but in the situation of exp, anyone who think its strictly speed based is nothing short of pants on their head tarded. Anywho, Basically theres roughly 3 types of MMO players.

1) Those who will be good at any job they play regardless of how fast they exp to 50. This is due to them putting research into the job prior or just being quick learners.

2) Those who will be terrible at a job they play regardless of how slow or fast they exp to 50. This is mostly due to the "Its my 12.95" syndrome and vehement laziness and lack of ability to research or look at constructive criticism or advice as anything but raging insults from elitists.

3) Those who could be terrible at level 50 due to never getting a chance to learn their roles at level 50, and getting a good flow down, which would have been solved by being in a situations heavily reliant on their job and the mechanics of the game.

And frankly, I think the population is about 75% "Bad will be bad", 15% "Good", and 10% "Middle ground". Where the middle ground being Option 3. What it boils down too is there are a lot of people who play MMOs and just simply do not care how much of a detriment they are to others cause they play for many a reason, relaxing, they enjoy MMOs, or something else. When most of us think MMO, we think playing with others, Gear, so forth... while I don't agree with the types who gimp it from 1-50 and continue to due so, I see their reasonings, and while I wish they'd just go play an offline game so they stop causing wipes they have every right to enjoy the game as i do.

regardless, those types will be bad at the game no matter how slow or boring the exp is because the start, the key to learning your job is the actual want to learn your job. Without the want, there is no learning. So no amount of slow boring exp has never been a means to learn your job... If anything SE needs to make dungeons more appealing 1-49 so people will be encouraged to do them. So while that 75% will still be awful, we can encourage the last 10% to learn their jobs in places like Qarn lol.

[CyrilLucifer]

Since it was mentioned, Qarn and Cutter's Cry are basically the idiot killer dungeons. Qarn especially, but Cutter's Cry's first boss can be a nightmare with bad players. Qarn teaches you positioning mechanics (I think the final boss has more mechanics than anything save the HM Primals) and Cutter's Cry is when the baby gloves are taken off in difficulty.

I really wish they had been required. Instead they're optional and I know many people skip them.

[Rhas]

stuff

Part 1

No, I am implying that people who level in fates quickly may not fully understand what they are capable of for end game as they are leveling so quickly, they may not have time (or care) to learn how to use abilities that may save them some headache at end game content. Leveling your main quickly will not get (for example) the WHM swiftcast so they can instantly raise someone that goes down unless they also quickly leveled thm as well. They may not even think of it or even know about it. Is it necessary? No. Can it make life a little easier at endgame? Good chance it might. Leveling quickly in fates doesn't teach mnk or drg positioning either. You just whack on everything until its dead. It will also not get you geared better from "optional" dungeons.

[Rhas]

stuff

Part2

I've found (generally speaking) that many people who "rush" to end game as fast as humanly possible don't care about doing anything except the bare minimum. Anything that doesn't get them to 50 the fastest is thrown away as "useless".

This does not mean there are not people who actually do take the time to learn on the way.

[Hayward]

-stuff-

I presume you see yourself in that 15%. Don't break an arm patting yourself on the back. What makes you (and others who parrot talking points from the "hardcore" forums) believe that 3/4 of the players are no good at this game? Even if that ratio is accurate--and believe me, I'm nowhere near convinced of that--what steps are you taking to address the situation other than engaging in vain circle jerks on forums about how superior you are?

[Alish]

Part2

I've found (generally speaking) that many people who "rush" to end game as fast as humanly possible don't care about doing anything except the bare minimum. Anything that doesn't get them to 50 the fastest is thrown away as "useless".

This does not mean there are not people who actually do take the time to learn on the way.

So then its not a FATE problem is it? Once again, its an individual issue. That said, I would like it if SE somewhere down the road would make dungeons a more attractive option of gaining exp and interacting with more players.

[Rhas]

Since it was mentioned, Qarn and Cutter's Cry are basically the idiot killer dungeons. Qarn especially, but Cutter's Cry's first boss can be a nightmare with bad players. Qarn teaches you positioning mechanics (I think the final boss has more mechanics than anything save the HM Primals) and Cutter's Cry is when the baby gloves are taken off in difficulty.

I really wish they had been required. Instead they're optional and I know many people skip them.

Love both those dungeons

[Rhas]

So then its not a FATE problem is it? Once again, its an individual issue.

Never said it wasn't a personal issue. It gets them to 50 faster so they can whine more about end game content being to hard for them faster

They will still most likely be bad from 2 days of leveling or 3 months of leveling, but if they had 3 months of leveling, their chances to actually learn on the way may be better than if it was in 2 days.

edited after your edit
Dungeons, imo, are a good way to level. Went from 42 to 43 in 2 1/3 dungeons. Sure it may have been done "faster" in a fate, but I think it was just fine as it was.