OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[Sebastianaru]

Scholar and White Mage have different tool kits. Succor fits in fine with the tool kit we're given. You can't look over at another class and do 1 to 1 comparisons of abilities.

[Alu79]

Scholar and White Mage have different tool kits. Succor fits in fine with the tool kit we're given. You can't look over at another class and do 1 to 1 comparisons of abilities.

No one is doing this. Read everything that has been said. If a SCH is caught in a situation where he needs to heal his entire group, Succor is simply not optimal. Can you do it? Sure, but so is dps not taking unnecessary dmg and that happens. If wasting a crap ton of mana for little healing isn't a big concern or wasting 50% of a spells effectiveness doesn't bother you personally, then this isn't a conversation you need to partake in.

Picture this scenario. Group takes dmg, whm casts medica 2 followed by medica 1. Ask yourself why they didn't chain medica 2.

Now picture this scenario. Group takes dmg, sch casts succor followed by.. succor?

If it is not efficient to chain Medica 2, why is it ok to chain Succor?

This is the problem. Succor = Medica2, what I need isn't medica2 but medica1.
We have Physick as a single target option when we don't need a shield, an aoe option for when we need raw throughput and not a shield is what 's missing from our kit.

[Alindra]

I haven't gotten to end game content on my scholar yet, but here's the only thing fix I think needs to be made:

Make it so Steady only auto-uses Embrace.

Get rid of Attack and Obey, they just over complicate the controls. Replace them with a "Do Nothing" stance, for times when people need to have their pets not do anything. Then people would just go between Guard (auto attack everything), Steady (auto attack main ability - Embrace), and "Do Nothing"

Then we can control when Eos does all her nice things, which would help out with the AoE healing a lot.

[Soukyuu]

Do not put words in my mouth

Why mention it then?

Yeah... because WHMs only cure once every 30 seconds.

Yet you still had to mention WHMs get it for free despite the fact ACN has essentially free MP. Again, why mention it?

Either way, irrelevant. That's not the point of this thread.

Exactly, so why don't we both stop mention things irrelevant to the thread and go back to the Succor topic.

I know how the shields work. Do you?

I have a hard time believing you play SCH at this point.

Enlighten me, o wise one! Sarcasm aside, I stated my view on how shields work in the same post you are picking apart. Am I wrong? If you think so, then explain what is wrong about my understanding, don't just go into "i know something you don't" mode. It doesn't help proving your point, nor disproving mine, so the discussion won't proceed.

Tell that to someone else. I'm more likely to chastise someone not micro-managing the fairy.
A SCH can efficiently heal 2 people at once. A WHM can efficiently heal 8 people to full in 2-3 spells. Succor alone for AOE healing is bad.
Need I spell it out even more?

If we had Succor alone, yes. But we have Succor while fairy casts embrace, and we have Physick while fairy cast the next embrace. Both times at the member with the lowest hp. So if you coordinate the two SCH (if you're adamant on sticking to the 2xSCH scenario), one casts Succor, the other spot heals the rest. Yes, WHM is easier, but at the same time WHM generate much more enmity by overhealing while topping off party members who had lower HP.

People are so adamant against giving SCHs a humble buff on the grounds of 'class stacking is silly', it's almost like they'd rather see WHMs get brought down a peg instead, because WHMx2 as arguably just as good as, or even better than SCH+WHM.

I am not against a buff per se, I'm against stacking shields. The idea of absorbing the shield into healing points on next cast I do like, though. People will go the lazy way anyway, hence 2xWHM being better because they are more stable. The problem is though that if they buff SCH, it won't end up exactly the same as WHM. It will either be still "less" good than a WHM or it will become more suitable for stacking. Which in turn will make the WHM faction scream for a buff/SCH nerf. It's a never ending spiral.

[IraVehementi]

As a 50 SCH doing the Coil, I will weigh in. First off, SCH are much better tank healers than WHM. If tanks in the coil aren't screaming for a scholar to heal them they are idiots. In order for a WHM to have the same effect on their tank, they have to first top the tank up, then cast stoneskin. 2 casts for the same effect as a single SCH cast. Wait till the first boss in the coil when each tank is getting hit for 25-30% every 3 seconds and see which class is the better tank healer. Especially considering WHM's can't regen mp as well as SCH.

If they improved Succor, it would make SCH to good compared to WHM. As it is Succor is awesome for what it does if played correctly with a WHM. The Scholar should always be on the MT, succor should be used as a supplement to shield the raid while a WHM does Medica/2 to top the raid off.

No class is best at everything, which an improvement to succor would do just that.

[Alu79]

As a 50 SCH doing the Coil, I will weigh in. First off, SCH are much better tank healers than WHM. If tanks in the coil aren't screaming for a scholar to heal them they are idiots. In order for a WHM to have the same effect on their tank, they have to first top the tank up, then cast stoneskin. 2 casts for the same effect as a single SCH cast. Wait till the first boss in the coil when each tank is getting hit for 25-30% every 3 seconds and see which class is the better tank healer. Especially considering WHM's can't regen mp as well as SCH.

If they improved Succor, it would make SCH to good compared to WHM. As it is Succor is awesome for what it does if played correctly with a WHM. The Scholar should always be on the MT, succor should be used as a supplement to shield the raid while a WHM does Medica/2 to top the raid off.

No class is best at everything, which an improvement to succor would do just that.

Your post on SCH being best tank heals has nothing to do with this discussion nvm that whm heal tanks just as well as sch, and they have a superior single target healing kit. There is zero reason for us to have a basic aoe healing option missing from our kit. We don't JUST tank heal, there are other aspects to this game.

[Crescent_Dusk]

If your whm are running oom it's because your bard either sucks or you don't have one.

[IraVehementi]

As a 50 SCH doing the Coil, I will weigh in. First off, SCH are much better tank healers than WHM. If tanks in the coil aren't screaming for a scholar to heal them they are idiots. In order for a WHM to have the same effect on their tank, they have to first top the tank up, then cast stoneskin. 2 casts for the same effect as a single SCH cast. Wait till the first boss in the coil when each tank is getting hit for 25-30% every 3 seconds and see which class is the better tank healer. Especially considering WHM's can't regen mp as well as SCH. While a bard certainly can restore a lot of MP, there are fights that it will not be able to keep up with the mp going out for WHM.

If they improved Succor, it would make SCH to good compared to WHM. As it is Succor is awesome for what it does if played correctly with a WHM. The Scholar should always be on the MT, succor should be used as a supplement to shield the raid while a WHM does Medica/2 to top the raid off.

[Anshii]

Your post on SCH being best tank heals has nothing to do with this discussion nvm that whm heal tanks just as well as sch, and they have a superior single target healing kit. There is zero reason for us to have a basic aoe healing option missing from our kit. We don't JUST tank heal, there are other aspects to this game.

Actually, according to what he posted as a SCH in coil, that is what you do.The point he and most people saying, "Succor is fine" are trying to make is about class diversity. If you want to be better at healing an entire group of people then play a WHM which has 2 group heals. If you want to play SCH then you have to learn to control your pet ( which does work but requires more hotkeys and micro skills ) and utilize your various skills and not just Physick, Adloquium, Succor, and "Bad pet AI". If you are having so much trouble with playing a SCH then it might not be the class for you. As it stands, I enjoy playing my SCH and would not like it to be a clone or very closely resembling a WHM. I am already working on my WHM and I find it completely different from SCH healing.

There has been topic after topic of people complaining about SCH needing to be buffed. It doesn't. Succor works for what its purpose is: to top people off and prevent damage. If you are spamming it during any 8 man with another SCH or WHM in the party you are probably the same people that keep your pet on guard without using the sick command on an enemy to stop your pet from casting all of their spells. Then you can tell it to heel so it follows you or placing it in a good location for it to heal people. Doing this once after you summon your pet sticks with that pet until it is dismissed or dies. Pet control is part of the class, same as SMN. You have a bar of 8 different ways to control your pet. They work and I use all of them. Leeches is your debuff removal. Yes you get it at 40. None of the instances, including Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, up to that point need it. Just heal through the 20-40ish damage that the poisons are doing. If you feel that you lack AoE healing power, SCH pet micro is too hard, or do not feel you should have to wait till 40 to get your debuff removal then SCH is not the healing class for you.

By the way, the second paragraph was a general blanket statement to the many threads I see on the Healer Roles forums and may or may-not have been discussed in this particular thread.

[Marcusow86]

If you are spamming it during any 8 man with another SCH or WHM in the party you are probably the same people that keep your pet on guard without using the sick command on an enemy to stop your pet from casting all of their spells.

There are a lot of fight were Scholar need to spam it to keep the party from dying especially with 2 SCH. Namely Garuda HM, Titan HM, etc. And by saying spam, i mean before i know a huge AOE will hit the group, i would pre-cast succor even when the team is in full health condition. Then i would cast again immediately after the team receive the AOE, and then once again, if the AOE Consist of several hits.

I notice, SCH is being gimped if we were group together, 2x SCH, 3x SCH is under diminishing return category to me right now. Most end game fight just got that much harder having 2 SCH. But 2X WHM would seems ok.

Off-topic, to prevent your pet form using all of their spell, it should be 'obey' and not 'sic'. Just saying as you said you used all of the pet command, you should know this already.