OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[sharazisspecial]

Regen on 1 or more targets is about equivalent to the faerie's embrace . Especially since you can't control the faerie completely and it heals 33% less then it should.

So far from playing both healer in coil the only noitceable thing sch has over whm is less threat.
Some fights like ADS double whm is better.

[kronpas]

Now to a point that I do agree in.
2x WHMs would probably have an easier time than 2x SCH on many of these fights - but I don't think thats a just indication of power - the WHMs spells allows for better fixing of emergencies, while the SCH spells ensures emergencies are kept to a minimum.

I think they should be seen in the light of working together or standign alone (AKA 4man).

Also I would like to remind you that Medica is potency 300 (if your heal is 150 and shield 150 - isn't that the same?) - now while I know Medica 2 on the other hand is more powerful, thats where I believe the Fairy makes up for it for Scholars.

Just some input.

In theory, medica is 300, succor is 300 total, they look the same but in reality after a huge AoE hit a Scholar has to either spam succor at least 3 times (current gear tier) or to rely completely on WHM to top off the raid. Succor is too niche a heal that only fits in certain niche like contant raid-wide AoE, while being useless against burst AoE type, which leads to non stackable SCHs. On the other hand, WHM mana issue will gradually goes away with higher tier gear, while a WHM with its well-rounded toolkit can do virtually anything a SCH can do, or do it better, save for the shields which is actually quite worthless. Its like 300HP on top of like 3k min for Titan. soooo much ugh. Free succor proc is worthless also, it procs when you cast the dome, and its 20% chance against how many time you make a dome in raid ... calculate it yourself.

Some said WHM heals raid while SCH keeps tank up after huge AoE. Replace the SCH in that scenario by a WHM, you wont see any difference. The reason is that: WHM must be able to heal tank well or else their cry would be ear-piercing (and the class will be even more worthless than SCH ATM). Now replace the WHM by a SCH .....

I havent even touch the dreaded fairy AI/control yet.

Some might feel current SCH status acceptable, but I myself dont, and many other agree with me.

Also, good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair, dont you?). I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

[sharazisspecial]

In theory, medica is 300, succor is 300 total, they look the same but in reality after a huge AoE hit a Scholar have to either spam succor or rely completely on WHM to top off the raid.
Some might feel current SCH status acceptable, but I myself dont, and many other agree with me.

And good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair!) I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

6 regen and 6 medica 2 stacked @_@

[kronpas]

I hate this forum's arbitrary words count limit.

[Eldaena]

The way I see it, Scholar is a supporting healer and with their fairy also being a supporting healer, together makes a more whole job. I feel like some of you are just slamming your heads against the wall because you kind of refuse to look at the other options. Scholar definitely exceeds in some contents too. Garuda hard-mode is a great example. They also help out tremendously in Titan hard-mode too. It is better to have one of each healer rather than stacking 2 white mage or 2 scholar for either of those fights. You have to slightly micro-manage your fairy, but other than that it's just timing. The one thing I could honestly say needs work on the job is the ability to use macros with the pet abilities. Could you imagine macros like Succor + Whispering Dawn? And it would help to keep things like Rouse up on your pet as well.

[Soukyuu]

Never said SCHs do.

Sure you did. Why mention Cure II being free at all then?

20% chance.

5% more than WHM's cure II proc.

30 second recast time. 15 second effect. Costs one lustrate/energy drain. Tied to atherflow's minute long cooldown

I can throw around with ellipses as well: Situational. Enough to save you from AoE. Choice between 10% damage reduction to whole party/charge MP/60% heal for one party member. Also, Lustrate has lower recast time than WHM's Benediction, even if it's 40% less potent.

Don't make it sound like it can be spammed for free with no opportunity cost.

If you want to just spam things, you're better off with WHM anyway.

I heard bards are extremely popular, and people like to have at least 2. This isn't an excuse.

Excuse for what exactly?

The point I'm making is succor is fine. Shields are fine. Not having an alternative to succor with how shield mechanics are isn't fine. I shouldn't have to explain to you why given this. Having only succor is like casting adloquium on someone with a stronger shield on anyway; you're wasting half of the spell, MP, and time in general.

The shield mechanics are fine. You cast Adloquium on the tank; Cast Succor on the party; the stronger shield on tank stays intact (no effect). However recasting Succor on the whole party will reset/update the shield. It would have been ridiculous otherwise.

due to shield mechanics

You keep throwing this around without actually explaining how you think the shields work. How about we start from there?

Well the fairy still doesn't make up for the strength of medica 2, but I'm not saying it should. I do belive WHMs should keep their medica ii, and cure iii unique.

I don't really get what you want for SCH to be honest. I don't think the fairy makes up for medica 2 as well, but you do have the advantage of being able to heal two targets at the same time, if you don't try to manage the fairy completely. Honestly, in a non-trashmob encounter the AI behaves just fine - all you have to do is position the fairy so that the AoE regen hits all party members. And the party members have to be aware that the fairy is a healer they have to be in range of - just like they have to be in range for you, or any AoE spell. I have my fairy on auto and simply move her around according to the situation.

which leads to non stackable SCHs

Which isn't a bad thing. Class stacking is silly.

Also, good luck at next 24m raid where your dreamy "optimal" raid team consists of 3SCH + 3WHM (since oh well, you WANT SCH+WHM to make perfect pair, dont you?). I'm looking forward to it, hehe.

24 = 3x8 parties, so no change in mechanics if you know that those 3 parties will have to split up and do things simultaneously. If people decide a class sucks, no amount of fixes will change that opinion, see MNK vs DRG. You will just have to find people who see SCH for what it is, can make use of this and can play together well.

[kronpas]

Its more in line with WAR vs PLD, you can visit tank forum to see how it fares. The only difference is Yoshida basically said WAR sucked it up and play lol.

There is no point comparing spell one-by-one as you have to look at how a class functions as a whole. As it is right now SCH cant do 'preemptive healing' effectively and its AOE is gimped, an improvement is needed. Or at least fix the damn pet so I can save the long-ass AoE healing to time with my other coolowns. Any heal with CD is worthless when the AI keeps spamming it on-CD at will. Any mentioning of it is not worth listening to since obviously that person never actually tried to incorporate it into their healing to match with AOE spikes. I dont even havd to read your whole post to see if you let it auto heal during fight.

Btw, do you really play SCH :\ 20% free succor is calculated on dome cast, the same as free cure 2 on cure 1 cast. The issue is: you can never spam sacred soil, lol.

[Vhayne]

The shield mechanics are fine. You cast Adloquium on the tank; Cast Succor on the party; the stronger shield on tank stays intact (no effect). However recasting Succor on the whole party will reset/update the shield. It would have been ridiculous otherwise.

You keep throwing this around without actually explaining how you think the shields work. How about we start from there?

Why would it be ridiculous? If 2 WHM each cast medica, don't they each get a 300 potency worth? If 2 SCH each cast Succor, one gets 150 heal +150 shield. The other gets 150 heal for the same MP and cast time. I honestly don't understand why so many seem to think this is perfectly normal. In the same scenario, if each cast their respective spells twice in a row, the difference would become even more staggering.

I understand that the classes aren't completely equal, but the above issue coupled with the very wonky pet AI ARE something that should be at least looked at. I'm not asking for Medica II, I'm not even asking for Medica I. Just give me something that will allow me to AoE heal without gimping myself. Making the fairy HoT completely controllable and putting it on a 30 sec cooldown would work for me as well honestly.

[Sygmaelle]

When you do actual serious fights then all this changes. Just like warrior tanks are fine(or even better) for AK ifrit and garuda but becomes jokes compared to pld in harder fights.

To match whm's healing potency sch needs to cast more spells.

Except that again you re not here to heal as a white mage. People still dont get it and its kinda sad

[kronpas]

What if I tell you I'm not healing as WHM? Ive played priest in WoW straight in 4 years, I know what preventive shielding is and how to execute it properly. Its not freaking rocket science. The issue is: shields aint as strong as the "L2P" camp advocates, then while a SCH is almost useless against heavy AoE, it has almost nothing that a WHM cant do. There are enough posts in this thread with basic maths pointing it out, please re-read it.