Wrath is the problem with warriors and here is why.

[TheFanciestBard]

Hey guys, I have a lot to say so I need to break it up into 2-3 posts due to limitations so bear with me.

I may not be 50 yet but I've played and tanked in MMOs long enough to be able to know what I'm talking about, I'd like to think. What is wrath? It's an buff that we must stack up in order to use our warrior abilities. In theory it allows a warrior to pick and choose what one needs for each situation. The problem is that wrath is never worth giving up and the abilities aren't that overwhelming in the first place.

To restate the obvious we need to trade infuriated for an ability. Infuriated gives us +10% crit and +15% healing received via curing magic. This boosts our survivability but that means we can't use any job abilities unless we instantly follow it up with infuriate or risk being more squishy than we already are. What do we do about this? Easy, just cut the ability all together.

Continued into next post..

[TheFanciestBard]

Continued -

"But don't warriors need some nifty mechanic to make them fun?" Is something one may ask. The answer is no, no, and no once more. Warriors are already fun because we have a stupid amount of damage CDs that play into the vein of being this hulking berserker who just smashes through everything. Warriors get by on their theme alone and now we need gameplay to help them not be neglected.

"But what do we do about warrior's abilities?" Give them CDs and that's it. Inner beast should be at around 12-15ish seconds and Steel Cyclone should only be around 8 to compliment overpower in AoE tanking. Add TP costs if you must, but make them under 80 for each. Make infuriate a real defensive CD (Cut all damage received by a flat 50% or something for about 10 seconds with a CD similar to unchained.) Unchained is fine as is.

Warriors can't keep up with Paladins because Paladins simply don't die better. Giving warriors this change gives them a way to compete.

[TheFanciestBard]

Before anyone says this would make warriors OP at tanking pull back for a moment and look at what paladins can do then look at warriors. With their defensive stance up Paladins aren't far behind on dps, have 3 more defensive CDs (I don't count bloodbath that ability just pads out slivers of damage at best) and actually lets us USE our abilities without dropping one of the things that makes us not migraine fuel to heal.

Sorry for the huge amount of text but I had a lot to put out there. Thoughts and discussion are greatly appreciated.

[Kitru]

Sorry for the huge amount of text but I had a lot to put out there.

You can edit a post to have more than 1k characters so you could've done your first post and then edited in your second two.

Thoughts and discussion are greatly appreciated.

The only real difference that you're talking about is providing the Inner Beast heal as a standard benefit and drastically reducing the effective CD (it's currently ~22.5 seconds; you're asking for it to be nearly halved). The problem would still be that the mitigation wouldn't scale with incoming damage.

You may want to level up to 50 before you start asking for massive revisions.

Wrath, as a mechanic, is fine as it is. It doesn't need to be completely removed. What needs to happen is for the +healing to be increased by roughly 10% (preferably as a passive benefit to Defiance) and the cost:benefit of the 3 Wrath consuming abilities reexamined. The reason that Steel Cyclone and Unchained are worthless is because the comparative cost to use them is too damned high and they provide a marginal benefit at best. Inner Beast provides and interesting choice between short term and long term survivability: it borrows from the long term to bolster the short term. They all represent a relative trade off. The problem is that the costs drastically outweigh the benefits. Wrath isn't a problem. The Wrath consuming abilities are (plus, replacing them with a series of short term CDs just gets boring, imo, especially since WARs already have one of the most complex rotations as is; you're effectively asking for 3 more buttons that need to be used regularly that are on CDs that don't even sync with the existing rotations).

[Shimiki]

I think adding a buff when you spend your wrath would be a great solution without changing the class too much. That would also encourage the warrior to spend the stacks instead of keeping them for the heal bonus.

That could be a new trait.

"After spending your wrath, you gain X% damage reduction for 15 seconds."

[TheFanciestBard]

snip.

In essence you agreed with my standpoint of warriors not having realistically rewarding way to spend their wrath. Yes wrath as a mechanic can work but it's much easier to get rid of it. You even stated you would prefer the healing bonus be a passive to Defiance which is also another key point to my argument. Warrior abilities aren't rewarding enough to warrant their costs and simply giving us the best of both world by rolling a heal bonus into defiance and limit abilities on CDs alone does wonders. At the moment wars are just too focused on dps abilities with low to moderate self healing ability to be a real tank. Something needs a change, and you don't need to be an end game raider to see that if you know anything about tanking. Besides why should we be all about trade offs when paladins just do their thing and have a ton of 'oh shit' buttons, because not being able to keep up sword oath is not enough of a trade off to justify their abilities.

[Kitru]

Besides why should we be all about trade offs when paladins just do their thing and have a ton of 'oh shit' buttons, because not being able to keep up sword oath is not enough of a trade off to justify their abilities.

Because that's what makes WAR interesting and fun to play. If you don't have to think about any tradeoffs, then it just becomes spamming the same rotation over and over again rather than having to gauge the situation. That's what makes me *enjoy* WAR: it's got a degree of complexity to it that PLD just doesn't have. Making the entire bonus passive (I'm not saying that; I want there to be a 10% +heal passive *added* to Defiance in addition to what Wrath already provides) and turning all of the Wrath consumers into baseline CDs removes all of the complexity.

Basically, you're asking for the stuff that makes WAR fun and interesting to be removed so that it plays almost exactly like PLD (i.e. static rotation). I don't want that. I want the trade offs to remain but to have mean contribution of Defiance/Wrath where it *should* be (25% +healing total) and the cost/benefit of Unchained and Steel Cyclone modified so that they're actually worth using. That's completely different than just wanting it to all be passive and CD.

[TyrantPoke]

The problem is wrath is a clunky mechanic for anything more then 1 target. Yes you have steel cyclone, and it can be useful...but our best AoE for pure snap agro isn't even a warrior ability. We do more AoE damage, we do more single target damage. We are more versatile..and I've tanked everything except Coil at this point as a warrior and even spoke with a warrior that finished coil, you just can't tank *everything* like a paladin can.

With the way wrath functions we scale better with every new tier of gear, not much different then other games when warriors are considered.

With that said though, paladins utility far outscales warrior. Instant cast, instant re-use stun(interrupt) vs our 30 second one + they have an ability in place to keep their resources casting it infinite. Their cooldowns even have shorter timers across the board etc.

It's like some one said 'youll get more hp and do more damage, but paladins gonna be the tank for every situation'

Even then, the effective health difference is almost nothing.

[Benjamen]

Tbh I think its just fine, im lv48 now, not done end-game stuff yet but the dungeons otw 4-5x, i dont know how to explain in math terms but the way I use my abilities are- edit: If infuriate is not available, start of fight build hate/get wrath, now if I want to use Inner beast I start the 1st hit of the combo (Heavy Swing) then use Inner beast if i need the heal then straight away I have the end-2 hit combo giving me pretty much instant 2 wrath, then if its up you can use Vengance to grant another instant wrath so that 3/5 and if things are dodgy at that point put up bloodbath or Convelace (+20% healing? pld Ja) until you get the last 2 wrath or Internal release if you want to keep that crit rate. Again i dont know about end-game fights but to me it seems everythings just fine with the constant healing pot+ you can easily keep up and bloodbath it looks baranced! to me, just the gap between content atm makes things awkward i guess for damage taking i hear but im sure SE wouldv known if War cannot tank lol either way im happy and I'l see, but damn sure i can make it work :3

[shinros]

Yeah you haven't done endgame stuff yet. Thats the problem warrior is having now my brother is a warrior came into ifrit with two warriors. Plus good luck finding a group that will take you to titan hard mode.

Onto ifrit party members just sighed and left the group he feels they also take too much damage as well. Healers I know prefer healing paladins.

So he rerolled.