Market Boards need to work like FFXI AH

[fixitman]

There isn't anything wrong with the system, the issue is that the economy is extremely unstable. Once the economy stabilizes in a few months, the markets will follow suit. There is no point in treating the market like just another speed-run.....

Bump. This needs to be addressed..

No, it needs to be given a rest until the economy stabilizes.

[bwalker36]

There isn't anything wrong with the system, the issue is that the economy is extremely unstable. Once the economy stabilizes in a few months, the markets will follow suit. There is no point in treating the market like just another speed-run.....

I agree, I was just wanted to point out that if it was changed going the blind bidding system was not the way to go.

[MistressAthena]

@ Bwalker36

I'm not quite sure what your saying on your second post. So excuse me for ignoring that, as I don't want to comment blindly on something I'm not understanding.

My essential point to the whole matter is that you'll still be getting the item between what its worth. Again using my Cobalt Cuirass as an example. You bid for 5k, do you get it? yes, no? do you want to push up? is it worth that much to you?

There is no difference than knowing its selling at 5k, against bidding at 5k ultimately in the long run.

That being said, the whole putting stuff up for dirt cheap did happen in FFXI as well, but its ultimately again down to the fact that when people see 5,000 5,000 7,000 6,000 1, 500, 6,000 5,000 5,000 in the price history, 90% of the people or more will be putting their stuff up for 5k. Because that's what they -See-. That's also what most people will bid at for, because again, that's what they -see-.

Main point:

Now you may be a bit more witty and try to buy things cheap, but like FFXI, it won't happen often, and instead of it turning into an undercutting party, it turns into people not wanting to undercut.. Why? Think about it... Everything is being sold at 5k...

To put your item up for 1k, or less is a huge risk ONLY to you. It's a risk to you because if someone tries to buy it cheap and they get it, you essentially just screwed yourself out of alot of gil you could of had. While everyone else is getting 5k per item, your walking away with 1g and someone basically just took your item because you tried to be tricky.

It's a risk to undercut in the FFXI AH system.. One that will only hurt you in the long run.

Note: Even if the market "stabilizes" out later on, it's still not a good market system. FFXI AH system bottom line, is just superior as a whole because it keeps the market fair to both adventurers, and crafters, and undermines undercutting, essentially turning undercutting into a dangerous business. That is far superior in every way, even if the market does stabilize out later.

[xbiggixx]

Bump. This needs to be addressed..

[MistressAthena]

Still needs to be addressed

[Bizzybeast]

I strongly disagree, FF11 wasnt a better system. Personally I thought Market Wards and player Bazaar was the perfect system, but many complained about it for some reason. Most of which now cry about being undercut. Well you made it happen.

As to undercutting, some of you need to get off the high horse. I keep seeing this "Item value" thrown around, there is such a thing. At the bottom of the item it tells you what it sells to the vendor for. Thats the items value. On the market, you need to find the buyer's value. I was the first 50 ARM/BSM on my server and had an intricate part in forming the market. Using /shout and the market, I did just fine. What I didnt do was buy everything I needed from the market, then turn around and think the item made was worth ONLY the price I paid for its mats. This is why so many of you are crying, you need to network better and find sources of cheaper mats.

If you gather your own, SOME of them arent worth the time, thats just how it is. Buy them instead or deal with how cheap they are. Like the OPs cobalt example, cobalt ore on my server is down to like 40 per. Iron of course is 18 off the NPC, or 40 if youre dumb enough to buy off market like lots of people do. OR do what I did, buy 12 stacks off someone for like 6k. ANYWAY when I make an item with cobalt, thats barely 200 gil cost to make, at market prices. Half that for what I get stuff for.


So when you sit here and say, it doesnt sell for 10k, I get undercut.. I wonder why YOU and YOUR item are so special? Why do you, and only you, deserve to sell at 1000% profit ranges? And the people who go lower then you are evil, greedy, douchebags? Honestly if someone steps on my market (like Mythril ingots), I chase them out by listing 5 ingots for the price of one of theirs. They always get the point. When people cut my crafted gear, for instance Goblin Longsword, I do not lower my prices. I raise theirs.

I do this by applying materia. I put a plain sword at the SAME price they listed theirs, then i offer 3-4 variants with materia for 4-6k more. 90% of the time, the materia ones sell before the plain ones.

I use to make stupid amounts of gil from the PLD and WAR pre-relics. I cut the WAR down to 20k (from 100k), due to growing competition. Well I pissed off some people, my retainer is named after me, and had to explain how being very high crafter, means you make stuff much cheaper. One guy tried my own method, he went to 7k, listed 5 of them. I bought all 5, and sold them the same day at 20k per. Whoops! Eventhough its steady at 20k, I then decided to let these others have their chance, so now I farm or buy the materia (battledance 3) and slot them, then sell the weapon for 140k. Its not my fault they sell better then the 20k plain ones, so I ignore the angry messages. Get creative, dont overpay for your mats, FIND smart items in DEMAND, and really figure out what it COSTS you to make them. Not some greedy "This is worth 100k, eventhough there are 40 listed on market and it cost me 4k to make!". If youre failing at this system, its nobodys fault but your own. There are times I sell items cheaper then it cost me to make them, why? To upset you? No, because I need that gil to make other items and 3k now, is better then 5k in 2 weeks.

As I had to tell the leader of an "elite crafters" LS, we arent unique lil snowflakes. Lots and lots of people craft, even more harvest. If youre tired of being cut, find a consistent buyer, its not that hard.

[MistressAthena]

I strongly disagree, FF11 wasnt a better system. Personally I thought Market Wards and player Bazaar was the perfect system, but many complained about it for some reason. Most of which now cry about being undercut. Well you made it happen.

You fail to explain why it isn't better. But taking by what you say below, and the fact you don't explain yourself, I'll mark it down as no real good reason why you think this.

As to undercutting, some of you need to get off the high horse. I keep seeing this "Item value" thrown around, there is such a thing. At the bottom of the item it tells you what it sells to the vendor for. Thats the items value. On the market, you need to find the buyer's value. I was the first 50 ARM/BSM on my server and had an intricate part in forming the market. Using /shout and the market, I did just fine. What I didnt do was buy everything I needed from the market, then turn around and think the item made was worth ONLY the price I paid for its mats. This is why so many of you are crying, you need to network better and find sources of cheaper mats.

This makes absolutely no sense, and is totally illogical. No offense. #1 Those vendor prices are put in there so people have a reason to sell it on the market, if those prices were at the items actual "value" then hardly anyone would sell stuff on the market, and most would just sell it to the NPC for quick gil. You seriously think a lvl 50 Item is worth only 100 gil? You have got to be trolling me.

That being said most crafters don't buy mats from the Market. Me included. I get everything I need from gathering and killing the mobs I need too.

So when you sit here and say, it doesnt sell for 10k, I get undercut.. I wonder why YOU and YOUR item are so special? Why do you, and only you, deserve to sell at 1000% profit ranges? And the people who go lower then you are evil, greedy, douchebags? Honestly if someone steps on my market (like Mythril ingots), I chase them out by listing 5 ingots for the price of one of theirs. They always get the point. When people cut my crafted gear, for instance Goblin Longsword, I do not lower my prices. I raise theirs.

Nice attempt, but again, completely illogical and doesn't make any sense. The whole point of the post is to keep prices stable. Undercutting is going to happen, and no you can't "raise other peoples prices", either that was a completely fail attempt at making your point, or your completely oblivious to whats going on around you. If you put 5 items up for the same price as someone elses, what do they care? If you keep your prices high? great, nobody will buy it. People will keep undercutting you. Have fun watching it not sell. That's how it is. Regardless of what smoke you try to blow.


I'm going to skip the rest of the stuff as its either mindless gibbering or something which doesn't even apply.

[Begeta]

I highly doubt SE would consider a rework of the AH system currently in place but I think if they added an item history menu to the retainers it would be extremely helpful. The menu could display like the marketplace but only show the sales history of all items listed so you don't have to do the back and forth between marketplace and retainer. I'm not real fond of having to write down all the items in my inventory I want to sell, check the history on the marketplace, then go to my retainer and start listing the items for sale.

[Bizzybeast]

You fail to explain why it isn't better. But taking by what you say below, and the fact you don't explain yourself, I'll mark it down as no real good reason why you think this.

But I do, as the very next sentence of my quote explains how its already better then FF11, which I think some dont know this was the first FF online, launched back in 1812 or something and its extremely old and outdated. Also none of its mechanics having any real relevance. So FF11's system was trumped by FF14, 1.0,'s original system. Bazaar and market wards, vastly superior to auction housing.

This makes absolutely no sense, and is totally illogical. No offense. #1 Those vendor prices are put in there so people have a reason to sell it on the market, if those prices were at the items actual "value" then hardly anyone would sell stuff on the market, and most would just sell it to the NPC for quick gil. You seriously think a lvl 50 Item is worth only 100 gil? You have got to be trolling me. That being said most crafters don't buy mats from the Market. Me included. I get everything I need from gathering and killing the mobs I need too.

After sifting through terribly fail passive aggressive insults of me and my 'illogical point', I find you basically just go on to strengthen said point. Therefor, no offense was taken. I can try to explain it to you, as I would a small child or exceptionally intelligent goldfish, but I feel the lessons may fall on deaf ears and need to be repeated much like this post already will reiterate what I already stated. I'll try once more though, so please pay attention.

That LITERALLY is the ONLY item value, the one at the bottom of the item. But you even decide to make up some makeshift reason why the number would be there... When in fact it is absolutely just the price at which it is sold to a vendor. The very sensible logic you claim to be so full of, dictates not to defer from this irrefutable FACT. If something had a vendor price of 78gil, if I listed it on the market at 77, I would be losing gil. Set it to 85 and im seeking a higher profit for the item. You made the mistake of trying to determine "value", when what you spoke of was 'worth'. Worth is what someone WILL pay for something, not its value.

And yes, I do think a level 50 item is worth 100, if the Value is marked at 100. Especially considering the HQ version would make it all but vendor trash. Alas most items have vendor equivalents, therefor their worth is not based off of their value, but their buy cost. With those, you now have a literal value. To sell to a vendor is 54, to buy from a vendor is 332. The market is clearly inbetween 54-332. Of course there are even exceptions to this, as maybe some may not know of all the items purchased from vendors. So a 54-332 item, may just sell for 500! Welcome to an auction house system, where your worth certainly will not always be someone elses value.

As i also, seemingly, explained... A harvester may have a higher worth in their mind, that does not align with the items value. Ill explain in a second, but first;

Stop! We are going to take a short break, so none of this logic becomes a confusing thought that someone might misconstrue as debatable. Okay, ready? Here we go.. Say you harvest Cobalt, you have it down were you get 10 an hour, but you can make 20k an hour farming some dungeon or item. So you set your mind to assume these cobalt re worth 2k each. This is wrong, as it is not taking into account what the worth is. If I buy them at 20 per, why would I ever be crazy enough to pay 2k??

Again your problem is more complaint then a broken system. You are failing to use it right or over valuing your items. Thats it, thats the bottom line, there is no wiggle room left for personal interpretation. All of which I did explain.

Nice attempt, but again, completely illogical and doesn't make any sense. The whole point of the post is to keep prices stable. Undercutting is going to happen, and no you can't "raise other peoples prices", either that was a completely fail attempt at making your point, or your completely oblivious to whats going on around you. If you put 5 items up for the same price as someone elses, what do they care? If you keep your prices high? great, nobody will buy it. People will keep undercutting you. Have fun watching it not sell. That's how it is. Regardless of what smoke you try to blow.


I'm going to skip the rest of the stuff as its either mindless gibbering or something which doesn't even apply.

To you. Of course it doesnt make any sense to you, because you see red right now. You are upset, confused, and frustrated with a market system in which you are failing to find your rhythm with. That sucks and im sorry, but alas it does not mean it needs to be changed into some weird system that would do worse what you primarily complain of. Someone listing an item at 1000 and getting 5k? Huh.. It will never happen buddy and frankly its truly the only part of this conversation that is "illogical" and without a single penny's worth of sense. Face that courageously, then we can continue a discussion instead of simply a lecture where I educate you on the semantics of the economy system. As I stated (funny how many times ive had to say that, hopefully you take the time to read this one, so as to avoid it in the future) there are other methods then undercutting, which I personally have had great success on. Especially 2 weeks ago, when materia was confusing to many people. I also find markets that not many people list in and I make crazy profit from, almost a shameful amount of profit. "Nobody will buy it!", yes they will. If its a stackable item, I list 2 at the same price (check original post where I expl.. nm) as his 1. Mine sell.

Is this really difficult or so logically profound to you that it blurs into gibberish? I suggest reading it a few times, as the next tips wont be so specific, least im forced to charge you a fee. I truly thought many of these things were common sense, realizing with this thread thats not the case.

And being that I would thrive in ANY economic system, market-auction-wards-RL, I probably will be billing you a fee for my pointers as it took me a good 15 minutes to type this out. Keep a heads up on your PMs for the invoice, youre welcome, good luck, and have fun!

[Garnatian]

It's pretty crazy though. In one day Gold Ore has dropped from around 490g a piece to 200g and some of the other mats at level 50 that sold for around 100g now sell for about 20g.

I sorta regret levelling Mining to 50 because it's worthless. I'd make more money just farming Castrum and selling mats that way.

I think they should rework the gathering classes, because they are pretty pointless in terms of making money. Maybe add super rare mats that spawn once a day (IRL) in random places across the world.

I've sort of given up on small undercut, I just massively undercut stuff now, drive down the price so I can buy stuff for cheap on my crafting classes.