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  1. #31
    Player
    Vanidin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    217
    Character
    Vanidin Pickles
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 67
    Quote Originally Posted by neoreturn View Post
    sure, better gear will give you higher chance to win but no skill will lead to lose always. Last night I saw a i45 gear healer did much better job than these healer with relic+1 in Titan HM. that's df Group. running to the wrong spot and die will ruin the fight no matter how good of your gear. People just need more practice with good attitude. It is not some game like the tie2 gear could reduce Dmg by 5"%.etc war hammer, or rift. So overall skill without mistake is more important in this game.
    What is an i45 gear healer? A healer with a lvl 45 weapon? a healer in lvl 45 gear? does that mean no AF? (if so what crucial abilities do they not have?) You could go a long way in actually explaining what happened and what brought you to your ridiculous conclusion. Skill and gear are equally necessary. It doesn't matter how "skilled" you are as a healer if you can't out heal the damage in a fight. Was that healer running to the wrong spot or were they so busy carrying the other dead weight healer that they lost track of something? Got a parse of that fight by any chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by neoreturn View Post
    Just let you know his HP only 2.7k, did titan to 10% but someone else screw up. when people saw there is 2.7k HP healer they just quit and don't even want to try. So far my worest experience for Titan fight is in premade gear check group. Some high gear player continue die at phase1. That's very rare in DF pug group.
    To be honest I would attribute his survival to the skill of the other healer in instantly getting his inadequate hp pool filled back up. He had to have been pre-casting cure's to keep him alive through the stomps. Deaths in phase 1 happen often in DF groups... you have plenty of people that are new to the fight that are hitting DF to gain experience before making serious attempts with server made groups. It's entirely possible your "2.7k hp healer" has simply been desperately df'ing titan so many times that dodging mechanics is second nature to him. That doesn't mean he isn't a burden to the rest of the group however.
    (1)
    Last edited by Vanidin; 09-20-2013 at 07:48 AM. Reason: stuff.

  2. #32
    Player
    GoddessEtna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Asuna Dawn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by neoreturn View Post
    Just let you know his HP only 2.7k, did titan to 10%
    So Astral Flow one shot him creating a huge demand on the other healer. Sounds like a real boon to the group. Don't try to embellish your argument as it just makes you look incredibly silly.

    Skill plays a major factor, but you try and dodge around that bosses just have flat out gear requirements you can't skip. Period.

    Like the Garuda argument I keep seeing that you can easily kill it going straight Ifrit to Garuda with no gearing needed. I am still waiting for video of the group that ALL has 49 white weapons (you can have one Ifrit weapon since you needed to kill him once to get there), only AF, and 35ish jewelry. Since, you know, skill is the only thing you need.
    (2)
    Trust is a disease. Friendship is a lie.

  3. #33
    Player
    Alaray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    624
    Character
    Vevri Arctyria
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    I'd say the two go hand in hand. With fights that do have checks for the gear/stat requirements, the skilled individual likely won't live through it if they can't meet those requirements. But someone with the best gear and absolutely no skill might just die to the mechanic anyway (or a different one, like standing in all of the red). Someone with gear on par for the encounter, who is skilled with their job/class, will be a bigger boon to the group than the person with the best gear in the game, but doesn't know what they're doing.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    VanWulfen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Ladio Amira
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 80
    It's true skill is better than your gear. How do I know? Well my skills enable me to fly around Titan to avoid his tumults.
    (2)

  5. #35
    Player
    Kantide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    515
    Character
    Momo Snugglebites
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 81
    With perfect execution, Garuda can be done without needing insane gear and maybe a smattering of darklight or farmed gear.

    I think the more serious issues is that people doing Garuda hard or Titan hard are expecting everyone to have a full set of ilvl 70+ gear to tackle it. Well, it's not necessary. Clearly you will need more than all whites but people should have that just from playing the game. Have one or two white accessories will not make or break the run.

    You shouldn't have to farm for 90 hours before fighting titan. Plain and simple. And with skill being what it is, no one should have to. The problem is the elitist attitude that equates gear to winning when in fact a mix of both gear and skill is needed. I can run Castrum for 7 years and be in darklight and have no idea how to do anything in the primals and still be outdone by someone with some skill.
    (1)
    http://poeticjustice.guildwork.com

  6. #36
    Player
    Jinko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    5,656
    Character
    Jinko Jinko
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantide View Post
    With perfect execution, Garuda can be done without needing insane gear and maybe a smattering of darklight or farmed gear.

    I think the more serious issues is that people doing Garuda hard or Titan hard are expecting everyone to have a full set of ilvl 70+ gear to tackle it.
    I don't think this is the case at all.

    Personally
    For Garuda I expect people to have some darklight but mostly AK gear.
    For Titan I expect people to have mostly darklight and perhaps some AF2 gear.

    I don't think this is expecting too much really.

    I think the main thing though is that having good gear means you have some respect for your fellow party members, I certainly don't want to be carried in a fight and nor should I have to do it for someone else.
    (1)
    Last edited by Jinko; 09-20-2013 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #37
    Player
    Kantide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    515
    Character
    Momo Snugglebites
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinko View Post
    I don't think this is the case at all.

    Personally
    For Garuda I expect people to have some darklight but mostly AK gear.
    For Titan I expect people to have mostly darklight and perhaps some AF2 gear.

    I don't think this is expecting too much really.
    I farm Garuda on SMN with 3 pieces of darklight (gloves, boots and earring) a pink ring, some level 49 ring, Militia leggings and the robe from AK and I do just fine. This is what I call a smattering. I haven't really farmed but I don't have relic or even Ifrit weapon. I don't die and do decent damage. I've done it successfully with even WORSE gear for sch and whm (i.e. no DL or anything above white accessories and with AF aside from the Strategos Bliaud).

    Really most of these bosses can be killed with an optimistic attitude, a realistic mix of gear and a smile. The elitist derps are the ones I see making the most mistakes in my random groups and they're usually the ones with a bad attitude to go along with it. (i.e. getting stuck on the other side of the field and running through Garudas vortex and dying in the process, then blaming the healers for him not making it)
    (3)
    http://poeticjustice.guildwork.com

  8. #38
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    946
    Character
    Shiyo Kozuki
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    You literally can't do titan without enough mdef and VIT to survive tumult and geocrush. You also can't kill him without enough DPS to finish his heart phase or to kill him before he does too many tumults that it becomes unhealable(this happens even more quickly if you're undergeared). You also need around 3.1k HP as a cloth with enough DEF/MDEF to survive eating a single bomb sometimes.

    No amount of skill will make up for not having enough def/mdef/VIT or damage to clear titan.

    This doesn't even get into the fact that Yoshi, the games director and lead dev literally stated you will need to clear X content for X gear in order to do Z content, meaning gear progression is intended and balanced around.
    (1)

  9. #39
    Player
    MrSmiley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    630
    Character
    Crysta Elizabeth
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Gear cannot carry you in this game, however it is still required. What OP says is true, but many things cannot be done without both.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    ItsJanHi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Yuu Jin
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Not when I have more HP than a tank wearing all Lv.30 HQ gear -_-
    (0)

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