Thoughts on Warrior Tank.

[Kenji1134]

Hmm, damn, got the math juices flowing in me.
Base Potency
[150+(100)+200+(100)+260+(100)]/(3*2.5s) - Halone Combo w/ autoattacks = 121.333 potency per second
+ 300/30s (Spirits) + [100+30*15/3]/25s (Circle) = 20 ogcd potency per second
So a total of 141.333 base potency per second. Multiply that by 0.8 for Shield Oath. And multiply by 1+0.3*30/90 = 1.1 for using Fight or Flight on cooldown.
Dont feel like doing the calcs for Sword Oath, since it doesnt seem to follow its 50 autoattack potency math... maybe Im missing a part of the equation...

My MRD isnt very high, so Im not going to speak for WAR potency/sec for the time being.

[danteafk]

I rerolled a PLD after having warrior with relic.

The difference is soooooooo huge. PLD is just OP with all the dmg mitigation skills he has.

warrior is totally weakish, speaking of first hand experience.

WAR needs definately a remake, he is lacking massive on dmg mitigation skills. defiance needs a remake.

[Hachiko]

Hmm, damn, got the math juices flowing in me.
Base Potency
[150+(100)+200+(100)+260+(100)]/(3*2.5s) - Halone Combo w/ autoattacks = 121.333 potency per second
+ 300/30s (Spirits) + [100+30*15/3]/25s (Circle) = 20 ogcd potency per second
So a total of 141.333 base potency per second. Multiply that by 0.8 for Shield Oath. And multiply by 1+0.3*30/90 = 1.1 for using Fight or Flight on cooldown.
Dont feel like doing the calcs for Sword Oath, since it doesnt seem to follow its 50 autoattack potency math... maybe Im missing a part of the equation...

My MRD isnt very high, so Im not going to speak for WAR potency/sec for the time being.

Auto attack potency isn't 100.

Auto Attack potency is (Weapon Delay / 3)* 100

There are two ways to confirm this. Go in game and measure your auto attack damage compared to your Skill damage (i.e. fast blade). Divide your Fast Blade damage by 1.5, then multiply it by your (delay / 3). This will return your auto attack damage. That shows that Auto Attack potency = (Delay / 3) * 100.

Another way to look at it is by looking at the damage on the weapon versus the auto attack. The "auto attack" stat = (Weapon Speed / 3) * Damage.

[Kenji1134]

Oh? Always assumed it was 100, and served as a base value for most other ability potencies.
So "officially", what is autoattack potency? And where is it stated?

[Dhex]

PLD requires about .45 of the healing magic required to keep a WAR upright. Healing is a x.5 enmity rating.
So:

WAR has to contend with being able to last long enough after a big hit - it gives the healer a very small window in which to "save" their tank; WAR must also worry about balancing generating hate to cover that healing magic, and attempting to self-heal - which would be sacrificing their +Healing Potency. Parry rate and mitigation is limited. We have no Pacification available for parrying. Stun on 30sec CD.

PLD using active mitigation and passive mitigation has a larger window for the healer to "save" them - and require less healing magic and thus do not need to worry about generating more hate to compensate.
PLD has the higher single target enmity generating combo, Stun GCD, and Pacification available on block. Block rate can be raised by 60% for a short period; almost guaranteed to present an opportunity to use Shield Swipe.

Warrior has some blaring disadvantages in both utility and survival departments and suffer because of it when grouping at end game.

[Ehayte]

You guys are crazy - way to take another post intended to prompt a discussion about how to tweak warrior to make them more competitive with PLD main boss tanking, and retitling this thread "PLDs are better because of Algebra". We get it, we have seen the math. Let's apply those critical thinking and powerful math skills to help the OP, or go to a new thread.

I personally would be in total support of a scaled ability for warriors that would increase their healing bonus as they got lower on hit points, up to something like 100% bonus @ 1% hp - just give the current hp and the healing bonus inverse percentile relationships. I think it would make Warrior tanking strategies viable, AND add important variety to the game.

[Araye]

Hi,

Off topic: I see a lot of suggestions reading these forums daily. Some I think are very good suggestions (the OP's being one of the better I've seen in a few days). But have the devs ever taken a community suggestion of a game tweek like this and implemented it?

If so, is this sort of implementation a rare/uncommon/common/frequent occurrence?

The reason for my question is to gauge the usefulness of a thread like this. I'm not being snarky or cynical, I have an ideal I'd like to see for Paladin, but if it's unlikely to be implemented, I'd rather just accept and move on.

Thanks,

Masha

[Ehayte]

Stuff

It has happened. The rarity depends on the validity of the idea, taking into account balance, programing, and insider knowledge that we know nothing about as gamers. Certainly they will listen to the community...if it is profitable : D

[Fuuljo]

defiant and wrath system really need a remake, idk how
its just stupid atm

It's not that Wrath is a poor mechanic, it's just that it is too slow to generate. If you could generate a full stack of Wrath with one combo (1 from Swing, 1 from Sunder and 3 from Butcher) it would allow a WAR to use their job skills more liberally and ultimately make up for their lack of standard mitigation by helping to heal away damage twice as often as they can now.

Overpower should really be generating wrath as well, even if it just a chance based on the number of enemies hit. WARs don't need reworking, they just need tweaking.

Also Steel Cyclone's tooltip needs correcting.

[ZephyrK]

Without getting into math, it's a bad idea, imho, to have a mechanic that strips a tank of his primary tanking buff to do anything but mitigate damage better. Even years from now, would anyone care which main tank does 1%, 5%, 10% or even 30% more damage than the other? All people want or expect from their tanks is survival. It's why we have the trifecta system in the first place. You guys do damage, you other guys take damage, you third guys heal damage.

The entire game is designed around the trifecta, so having 2 classes so similar but to have one so clearly suited for harder content... well that just doesn't make sense.