Heals for Scholors need a buff

[Kalagg]

Not going to repeat myself any further for you. I'm done debating for now.

If it was an actual debate you might have a point, you are just whining that you don't have the same skills as a White Mage. Its a super simple fix, its called go play the White Mage.

Everyone keeps bitching about the pet AI, it isn't as horrible as everyone claims. The problem is the pet isn't playing the way you do so immediately it's broken. Other than Selene's silence skill, which I have no idea its proper use yet but I also haven't tried figuring it out, these fairies are great for cleaning up the party so I can focus on the tank if necessary.

As others have pointed out you are trying to keep people at max health like a White Mage would. You don't have to do that as a scholar because that shield picks up the slack as does your fairy. You are bad at the class and want it changed for your playstyle. How about you go play the class that matches your playstyle.

[Eriane]

Just saying, it's a bit of a stretch to not have a bard in an 8 man, even with DF given how popular they're becoming, though I understand where you're coming from with the 'personal balance' thing.

Thank you.

Bards that use mana song kill their DPS. A guild that didn't need to manage WHM mana could either drop a bard, or get bards to concentrate on damage. The reason SCH with medica will obsolete WHM is the same reason discipline priests obsoleted holy priests in WoW, even though holy priests had far better healing burst. Pre-shielding is just that good (and discipline priest didn't have an infinite mana pet spamming heals either).

Any healing meter will show SCH outhealing WHM _now_, even without buffs, on any fight.

Not picking a fight just pointing out that bard dmg reduction is 20% and their dmg is very good to begin with.
You can't really compare this to wow. Disc priests were way more overpowered.

[fanservice]

As others have pointed out you are trying to keep people at max health like a White Mage would. You don't have to do that as a scholar because that shield picks up the slack as does your fairy. You are bad at the class and want it changed for your playstyle. How about you go play the class that matches your playstyle.

I like how when I mention succor and sacred soil are too weak, people think I'm advocating for regen, medica ii, and cure iii for scholars... or maybe you didn't read anything I posted, and assumed that's what I ment.

I'm nice enough to give you a tl;dr version:

I really didn't talk about keeping people at max health, or giving SCH all of the WHM's shiny toys; for having less than half of the raw AOE healing power of the aforementioned WHM spells, the damage mitigation from succor, and sacred soil are mathematically too weak, made worse by a lack of a working simple 'toggle auto use' like WoW had in their UI for pets. When it comes to healing off AOE damage, again, succor is a half of a medica. Casting it more than once is mostly a waste since half the investment is in the shield, that doesn't add on to itself. That is all.

Increasing succor's healing on targets under the effects of adloquium is a cool idea though.

[Jarin]

How is sacred soil weak? It reduces 10% damage and not a set amount..ie it scales with the damage being done. That is pretty powerful if you think about it. As for Succor? Meh, it does what it does...we either learn how to work with those skills or give up and reroll. As for our pet UI..it does have issues but once again, we learn to work with it. It's part of trying to utilize our class/job and pushing it beyond the normal "1 button spam" class we could have if we whined enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on what they think should be done to buff their class and what they feel is broke with their class... not to forget about the everlasting argument about "my class is far superior to your class."

[puca]

Thank you.



Not picking a fight just pointing out that bard dmg reduction is 20% and their dmg is very good to begin with.
You can't really compare this to wow. Disc priests were way more overpowered.

Are you serious? A cutting edge progression guild will take a 20% damage buff to a strong DPS, if they can!

And yes I certainly _can_ compare to WoW, because situations are exactly comparable. Both games have cutting edge content where healing is made challenging by burst damage, mana pressure, overhealing concerns, and movement. SCH is far better under mana pressure than WHM, SCH handles overhealing far better because shields never overheal, SCH blunts big spikes of damage using their damage reduction abilities (virus/sacred soil) and shields, and SCH heals far more during movement phases due to their fairy. Healing meters show SCH outheal WHM by a significant amount (10-20% usually). SCH need a weakness, and their weakness is poor stacking and poor AoE burst. Removing their weaknesses will make them into a healing superman.

[fanservice]

Are you serious? A cutting edge progression guild will take a 20% damage buff to a strong DPS, if they can!

Funny you mention that. There's a thread, or more than just one talking about bard stacking, about how one (or more) of the more progressed FCs use more than one bard and rotate songs. It does even out in theory since THMs could hit harder, and spam more fire spells during astral fire with foe requium, and mage's ballad active, while the bard's feed each other MP. So an entire fight with mage's ballad active eliminates MP issues for healers as a side effect, while if anything, the group's dps is better. Also, these are bards we're talking about. The same ones that can use blood for blood, raging strikes, hawk eye, inner release, and invigorate.

Btw, WHM could get virus and eye for an eye too.

I've also explained why sacred soil's current value is a bit weak. AOEs the group is ment to take will not one shot anyone from full HP without sacred soil, so SS isn't saving lives. Also, let's say the group got hit by an aoe, or consistent aoe across the span of 10 seconds that does 2k damage per person total over the soil's lifespan, SS prevents 200 of that. That's a tick of regen for each person. That's really it. If anything, it's better served under a tank that should take way more than 2k damage in 10 seconds...

You can compare the games, and they're similar in theory, but SCH values are nowhere near as strong as disc priest's damage mitigation relatively speaking.

[kronpas]

Are you serious? A cutting edge progression guild will take a 20% damage buff to a strong DPS, if they can!

And yes I certainly _can_ compare to WoW, because situations are exactly comparable. Both games have cutting edge content where healing is made challenging by burst damage, mana pressure, overhealing concerns, and movement. SCH is far better under mana pressure than WHM, SCH handles overhealing far better because shields never overheal, SCH blunts big spikes of damage using their damage reduction abilities (virus/sacred soil) and shields, and SCH heals far more during movement phases due to their fairy. Healing meters show SCH outheal WHM by a significant amount (10-20% usually). SCH need a weakness, and their weakness is poor stacking and poor AoE burst. Removing their weaknesses will make them into a healing superman.

HoT is prone to sniping given the long GCD and mana constraint WHM has at the current gear lvl restricing HoT rolling, 2 WHMs waiting for both HoT tick wont have the so called out healing.Besides healing is not dpsing, you can only heal so much until your target is at full HP, citing on HPS is a sign of bad healer actually. You need way more info to determine a healer's usefulness, like how it tops off people after a big spike in raid damage, smooths dmg spike on tanks and raid, etc, which requires the person who is judging to know both healers and the nature of the fight.

Take WoW for example: disc priest is at the bottom of the chart for a very long time until Bliz decided to count shield number in combat log. And unlike here, disc priest shield is a game breaker in some particular encounters. HPS aint anything.

I seriously think that you should level a SCH to 50 to actually feel there is something not working right with the class. It has potential, true .... but on paper. After all if you are dedicated for healing you should level both classes. Its not even time consuming, a week with moderate time allotment should be more than enough.

[puca]

I seriously think that you should level a SCH to 50 to actually feel there is something not working right with the class. It has potential, true .... but on paper. After all if you are dedicated for healing you should level both classes. Its not even time consuming, a week with moderate time allotment should be more than enough.

I am glad that you agree that it's a better policy to level both SCH and WHM and use whatever is better for the encounter than whine about SCH. SCH is fine, a bit too strong actually.

Funny you mention that. There's a thread, or more than just one talking about bard stacking, about how one (or more) of the more progressed FCs use more than one bard and rotate songs.

I've also explained why sacred soil's current value is a bit weak. AOEs the group is ment to take will not one shot anyone from full HP without sacred soil, so SS isn't saving lives. Also, let's say the group got hit by an aoe, or consistent aoe across the span of 10 seconds that does 2k damage per person total over the soil's lifespan, SS prevents 200 of that. That's a tick of regen for each person. That's really it. If anything, it's better served under a tank that should take way more than 2k damage in 10 seconds...

You can compare the games, and they're similar in theory, but SCH values are nowhere near as strong as disc priest's damage mitigation relatively speaking.

That's precisely the point. Part of the reason progressed guilds use bard song is because WHM are useful enough that it pays to nerf bard DPS to work around WHM limitations. If SCH got buffed AoE healing, this would be a less compelling strategy.

Sacred soil is not weak (it's not power word : barrier, of course). By your argument, tanks shouldn't stack mitigation because every single bit of mitigation by itself is weak. Sacred soil + pre-shield nerfs burst damage by significant amounts. The point with mitigation is that it significantly increases "time to live" (max amount of time you can live without a heal) which is the defensive stat you are trying to maximize in progression raids.

Anyways, I would be fine with SCH getting better AoE if their mana regen was nerfed to WHM levels. Again, SCH outheals WHM in every parse I am aware of, and shields provide mitigation utility to boot. SCH also heal far better when mobility is needed. WHM niche is burst AoE. That is the only thing they have going for them. There is no way SCH gets improvements in that area without significant nerfs elsewhere in their impressive toolkit.

[Marcusow86]

Everyone keeps bitching about the pet AI, it isn't as horrible as everyone claims. The problem is the pet isn't playing the way you do so immediately it's broken. Other than Selene's silence skill, which I have no idea its proper use yet but I also haven't tried figuring it out, these fairies are great for cleaning up the party so I can focus on the tank if necessary.

The AI of fairy is flawed, not sure intended or not but it is surely flawed. Like i mentioned in other thread, fairy's healing range is much lower than her skill range. She won't heal if you place her at her maximum healing range. How is that not a flaw?

[kronpas]

I am glad that you agree that it's a better policy to level both SCH and WHM and use whatever is better for the encounter than whine about SCH. SCH is fine, a bit too strong actually.

If you havent noticed, all calculations in this thread and some other threads in this forum ignore the fairy, simply its being bugged beyond any excuse at the moment. People who s saying the class if fine is either given up on AOE heal completely, instead focus on single heal aspect of the class (which the fairy still does somewhat fine) or do not have a 50 SCH doing titan and up yet (easily to figure out by looking their chars up on Lodestone).

While I'm all for a slight/moderate buff of succor, the fairy really needs to be fixed ASAP. That is the sole reason I'm mainly heal on WHM at the moment, although SCH was the very first class I leveled up to 50 (even before SMN) and almost bought relic base weapon for. In this sorry state, it's simply no-fun for me.