Have MMO players lost their way?

[darkm0d]

Developers are the ones who lost their way.

Not really. They have to make a game people will buy.

The saddest part of ARR is that if it was XI-2, it wouldn't have sold as well. They had to turn it into what it is now for it to be a mainstream game.

[jpem]

Not really. They have to make a game people will buy.

The saddest part of ARR is that if it was XI-2, it wouldn't have sold as well. They had to turn it into what it is now for it to be a mainstream game.

Doesn't that kind of prove his point? No one wants to make a great niche game, they will choose to make an average mainstream game instead. It's all about the money not the game.

[DrPancakes]

Doesn't that kind of prove his point? No one wants to make a great niche game, they will choose to make an average mainstream game instead. It's all about the money not the game.

Sad thing is prolly about half the people who bought from sale. Won't be subbing.

It's like the game is somewhere in the void between niche and mainstream

[Frothylager]

Doesn't that kind of prove his point? No one wants to make a great niche game, they will choose to make an average mainstream game instead. It's all about the money not the game.

I never understood this argument in music or art and i sure don't get it for video games either. Why do people seem to think that something has to be niche for it to be great and everything that is "mainstream" "sellout" is average?

News flash for all the pompous indy douchers out there. If something attracts millions of people it is great, if something attracts a few thousand it is average, not the other way around.

[darkm0d]

News flash for all the pompous indy douchers out there. If something attracts millions of people it is great, if something attracts a few thousand it is average, not the other way around.

I have to disagree a bit to this. Take Dark Souls / Demons Souls for example.

Hard, niche games. Very stoic, very unforgiving. Neither had astronomical sales numbers, because they are pretty hard games. If the studio wants more money, they need to make the game more mainstream.

But honestly, it's just how things have to be. Your argument is pretty bad. It's like saying One direction is clearly "good" music because millions of girls like it. We know that's not true. Millions of people eat at McDonalds, that doesn't make it a great place to eat.

[jpem]

I have to disagree a bit to this. Take Dark Souls / Demons Souls for example.

Hard, niche games. Very stoic, very unforgiving. Neither had astronomical sales numbers, because they are pretty hard games. If the studio wants more money, they need to make the game more mainstream.

But honestly, it's just how things have to be. Your argument is pretty bad. It's like saying One direction is clearly "good" music because millions of girls like it. We know that's not true. Millions of people eat at McDonalds, that doesn't make it a great place to eat.

Yeah, sales =/= quality. Being mainstream doesn't make it inherently bad. There are tons of shitty unknown games. But the majority of mmo's are just the same old, same old. There was many successful and unique games in the past that had their own loyal fan base and didn't need to try and get the WoW market. I mean EVE is doing pretty well for itself as the one truly unique mmo, but why hasn't there been another game like that? Why is it always the same damn WoW style game with a differently colored ribbon?

[Oriachim]

I have to disagree a bit to this. Take Dark Souls / Demons Souls for example.

Hard, niche games. Very stoic, very unforgiving. Neither had astronomical sales numbers, because they are pretty hard games. If the studio wants more money, they need to make the game more mainstream.

But honestly, it's just how things have to be. Your argument is pretty bad. It's like saying One direction is clearly "good" music because millions of girls like it. We know that's not true. Millions of people eat at McDonalds, that doesn't make it a great place to eat.

Newsflash: If millions of people don't play Demon Souls/Dark Souls because they don't like how hard it is. It's not as great as you're making out. If millions of people enjoy FF 14 because it's to their taste, then it is an amazing game.

Bad example with the McDonalds... I go there for cheap, fast food. If the food wasn't at least tasty, then I wouldn't go there.

[jpem]

Newsflash: If millions of people don't play Demon Souls/Dark Souls because they don't like how hard it is. It's not as great as you're making out. If millions of people enjoy FF 14 because it's to their taste, then it is an amazing game.

Bad example with the McDonalds... I go there for cheap, fast food. If the food wasn't at least tasty, then I wouldn't go there.

You're right, I give up. Call of Duty is objectively all 10 of the top 10 games ever made.

[Oriachim]

You're right, I give up. Call of Duty is objectively all 10 of the top 10 games ever made.

Once again. It's not your taste of game. But to millions of people it is the best game ever. (the reviews agree to your dismay) So troll harder.

[Gunaklou]

I never understood this argument in music or art and i sure don't get it for video games either. Why do people seem to think that something has to be niche for it to be great and everything that is "mainstream" "sellout" is average?

I am not a 100% with you on this, but you make a good point: I work with a lot of artists and most of them can't understand why they can't get paid for the art they did. Because nobody really like it! Yes it would be awesome that somebody pays you for the thing you really like to do, but if there is no demand, no need of supply.

The same applies for games: making a niche game might appeal to a group of players, but making a MMO these days cost so much money that it is a big freaking risk to make a niche game. So for any new big mmo, do not expect it to be the game you exactly want because what you want will most likely only appeal to a small group of player.