Loose use of the term "eliteist"

[AxeIvy]

Since so many of you seem to have trouble understanding the word "elitist", let me make this easy.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitist

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
e·litist adj. & n.

In other words, being a skilled player doesn't make you an elitist. Talking smack on the forums about how bad everyone else is, does make you an elitist. And there's no reason why anyone should feel proud to belong to the latter category.

[Evandis]

You may be an elitist troll if...

[Jynxii]

My point is, Skill =/= Gear and Skill > Gear. A top-tiered geared who lacked skill would be outperformed by a mid-tiered played who doesn't lack skill. This is fact from every MMO that came before this one.

Unless there are gear checks, whether it be a certain amount of HP, expected DPS or HPS. As someone pointed out earlier, if a boss hits for 2k, and you can only heal 600 before the boss hits for 2k again, you're probably under geared/not ready. It doesn't matter if you're the best healer in the world; if you can't output the numbers, you can't output the numbers.

The problem is encounters like HM Titan do have a pretty hefty HP requirement, even with 3 healers. Getting hit by turmul (sp?) 8 times in a row for 700-800 a piece is incredibly painful, and if you don't have to HP to take a few hits in between getting spam AoE healed by 2 WHM and a SCH, then it doesn't matter how good you are at dodging everything else, because you can't dodge this. Of course if you have the skill and the gear than obviously you'll be far more successful than either of your categories.

Yes some games let you roll face and get (high end) gear; hopefully this doesn't turn out to be one of them.

[shadowrell_d-_-b]

So because it is a pug, you are allowed to potentially screw over 7 other players?

No, not one part of my post stated that -_-. The fact is "YOU" can't tell another what they should have for content (even if you are correct). This isn't a matter of choice, that's what you are missing. When you decide you are going to PUG a fight that lvl you are essentially saying "im going to trust that the others that join are prepared for it".
If they aren't you do your best, if its not possible you reroll and hope for a better grp, this is what will be the case until SE adds the ilvl requirement to DF (something that should have already been added).

again its a PUG no heads up/ very little co-ordination/ little to no communication/ and people you most of the time don't know! and to add to it many of these elitists want to rush the content half the time.

how can you get upset about something when you knew what you were getting into -_-

[Randalthor]

I'll use AK and Titan as my examples.

Normal:

- Your gear is borderline and you have not done the dungeon before. I will walk you through the strat until you understand.
- If we wipe on an encounter and you have some/all of the blame, we can keep trying as long as you understand what you are doing wrong and are correcting it the next time.
- I will suggest that based on your borderline gear, you do Wanderer's Palace first (in the case of AK), but if you are an able player and can learn the strategy and get through the bosses, then I won't have a problem.

Elitist:

- I will not invite you to my group unless you have ilvl70 gear.
- I expect you to have done the dungeon at least 5-10 times.
- Don't message me if you don't meet my requirements.
- I will always blame people for their mistakes without offering constructive feedback.
- I will rage quit if you make a mistake.

The difference here is primarily the attitude and approach towards others, but also the elitist crosses the line between REQUIREMENTS and WANTS.

I understand that you may want someone with all DL gear, at least one piece of mythology gear, and their relic weapon for AK/Ifrit/Garuda/Titan, but in reality, you can get away with AK greens and skill.

Don't act like a douche when looking for people (/shout LFM only experienced players for titan, must have 10 wins under your belt and full ilvl70 gear. Don't message me if you don't meet these requirements). Did you forget when you were an inexperienced player trying Titan for example for the first time? Did you get treated the same way? No? Then don't do it to others.

I get you want to do a dungeon with experienced players. I get you don't want to spend time teaching others to do this and you want to farm the encounters. There is a way to communicate that without acting like a douche.

[Kayo]

When they add gear checking on dungeons/raids, these issues won't exist as much, because the circumstances won't occur any more, because if you aren't geared enough for it, you aren't getting in no matter how much you kick and scream and claim you are entitled to experience all the content because you bought the game and are paying monthly! (will be interesting to see who is actually around after the first month...)

Thats just it, we have no idea what the content was designed for. I suppose eventually we will, once they start gating it, but telling someone "youre not geared enough" now is kind of a shot in the dark. What youd really be doing is identifying them as the "obvious" weakest link and automatically concluding (by gear alone) that theyre not ready. Too many groups fail because they just simply suck at teamwork, aka that soloist "screw you guys, im just here for *insert role*" mentality. And no, a DF pug is no excuse to exclusively DPS, Tank, or Heal.

For all we know, HM Titan can be beaten with full team in AF1 (random example) and has been done to death by internal testers. Obviously there is a problem with it since theyre forcing it soon, but Im willing to bet there will be quite a few players out there who'll still be allowed to queue, that have been boo'd off the party for having the same gear. I really just hope SE really tests these limitations and determines the actual minimum gear quality needed to finish fight at their designed difficulty, and not the easiest one. As in the minimum gear level the internal testers were able to beat "X" content. If they can do it, so can we.

[Shadowblind]

You may be an elitist troll if...

. . . you go into duty finder and expect a speed run

. . . you complain to players new to the instance that they aren't perfect

. . . you sound like an ass making a forum post whining about people who are whining about elitism

. . . you whine that people aren't skipping Praetorium cutscenes despite them being new and this being your eight-hundredth time

. . . you forget this is a GAME and a GAME which has MANY PLAYERS and forget that this isn't an RPG this is an MMORPG. Expecting the unexpected with regards to player interaction is expected, inherent, and part of the fabric of the game. If you don't like that, FFXV will be coming out someday just for you.

. . . you get angry at new instance players for sub-standard armor sets, somehow being completely ignorant of the "new" part of this sentence and expecting them to consult the almighty internet before they do ANYTHING

I'm sure I missed some, but those are what came to mind first :P

[Jynxii]

The fact is "YOU" can't tell another what they should have for content (even if you are correct).

For the sake of argument, I'm pretty sure you can 'tell' people whatever you like. There are ways of doing things, and if you are going to straight out say "Hey X, you're under geared for this, leave now and get more Darklight gear" then you're going to get a bad reaction. But you can just as easily say "Hey X, you might be a little under geared for this, but we'll give it a shot anyway. I would recommend trying to get a couple of Darklight pieces before queuing again though". (For those interested, this is called hedging :P) You are still letting the player know that they aren't really geared for the encounter, but giving them a chance to acknowledge it themselves without ramming it down their throat.

Anyhow, I don't necessarily have the same luxury as some other players, as playing on the JP servers limits the actual pool of English players to roughly 3 servers, so there is a good chance I'll get pugs that are actually on my server. If I acted like a dick, it takes someone two seconds to post a comment to their FC and suddenly I'm ousted from any server based content. Not that this stops me from saying what I think anyway, it is just lucky that I'm not a complete arse hole :P But anonymity definitely breeds them; why be nice to someone if you won't see them again unless you randomly bump into them in the next run?

Also not sure if it was this thread, but I did mention how I'm far more lax about these things than some players (I guess I fit into Randalthor's 'normal' category), and I don't mind giving things a few attempts before it becomes painfully obvious that is isn't getting better/won't happen.

Thats just it, we have no idea what the content was designed for... Too many groups fail because they just simply suck at teamwork, aka that soloist "screw you guys, im just here for *insert role*" mentality. And no, a DF pug is no excuse to exclusively DPS, Tank, or Heal.

Oh I don't disagree, and there are no doubt people that want nothing but over geared players so the runs go by easily (half the time these are probably less geared players), however I do think a certain standard can be applied. As was mentioned earlier, a pug has less communication and coordination, so over gearing is never a bad thing, which kind of comes to your second point where people pigeon hole themselves into specific roles or 'attitudes' from the get go. There was a big forum thread on here awhile ago where a DPS player was raging about healers not having swiftcast. The healer had to have swiftcast, but he didn't have to move/avoid the AoEs; makes sense right?

I've always been a firm believe of skill trumping gear (exlcuding gear checks), but so many people have been conditioned to being rewarded for poor play that so few players feel inclined to improve if they do poorly, and blame things like latency. Latency is often a factor (and can be devastating for some mechanics), but then you look at their positioning, reaction speed and ability to adapt to changing environments, and it is simply horrible, yet they'll scream until they're blue in the face that it wasn't their fault, and it is server's fault for lagging, or SE's fault for making impossible to beat encounters if you are above 100ms!

Again, this is an attitude thing. The cognitive dissonance between 'thinking' you're a highly skilled player, and the 'reality' of how skilled you actually are conflicts so results in rage and shifting of the blame so you don't feel bad about yourself. These players are easy to spot and continue on being mediocre. It isn't until you accept that you can actually improve, that actually start too.

ps. Sorry for the long as essay, lol. ><

[Ehllfhire]

The OP's very thread is elitism in action by its very nature: "We aren't eliists, you are just bad."

Listen, you are an elitist POS we get that, but there still is no defending or justifying it.

[Azurus]

snip.

Incorrect since in this case the lack of helmet and pads would hurt the whole team. Just like an undergeared player does, especially in certain "check" scenarios like demon wall. Its like your star player forgetting his mouthpiece and not being able to play. Your whole team loses without you. Yelling about mechanics is one thing, people need to learn, but be considerate of your fellow player and atleast show up in something that gives you a chance at success and allows you to win once you do learn the mechanics.