Loose use of the term "eliteist"

[ZakarnRosewood]

I agree with OP.

Western Progression has single handed-ly killed mmorpgs.

And the biggest truth of it all is, because of how lazy people have become.

since when did being a good gamer that tries his very best suddenly become the hyperbole term Elitist?

This is no different then saying people that are hard workers at their job, and are good at it are assholes who dont deserve their job, but instead the lazy high schoolers that spit in peoples foods for fun deserve the job.

I see some people never change.

[Huxer]

Wow, so many angry bads in here. You may, and probably will, call me elitist. There is truth to the elitist point of view and in your blind flames you miss the point. Let me try to get some analogies for you.

1) If I'm going to school and the teacher breaks the class up into groups for an assignment and I'm the only one that read the textbook and the hyperactive kid keeps eating sugar and poking the other girl in the group in the eye. I'm not going to be having a good time. I would be elitist for telling him that hes bad tho right?

2) We decide to form a team for a bowling league. My average is 280. Your average is 160. I will probably not be having fun when we lose to the other team by 20 pins. I say something (i know rude right?) and now I'm looking down on you and I'm an elitist.

[TohruHonda]

Lol what an elitist.

[Huxer]

3) We are in Duty Finder dungeon and I have already said 3 times to press T to get my target but you continue to DPS the one that isn't begin aggroed by my tank. The healer is forced to break off and heal you which makes me have to pop defensive cooldowns. Hell, I might have to switch targets to pull the damn thing off you. Now my taunt is down and when the healer pulls aggro from the third mob because he had to heal you back up I don't have taunt up anymore, he dies and we wipe and I take the blame.

In conclusion, I don't like you. You make everything harder on me because you fail to take any responsibility for yourself much less the group as an entity of people ho all want to win the event and move on. No, your too concerned about how it's a game and you should be having fun. You are not allowing me to have fun, you are not allowing the other 6 people to have fun.

[Huxer]

Learn how to listen, learn your responsibilities or how about this, don't join group quests. I know, I know you are't listening to me, you don't care what I or anyone else thinks or says, it's me that is the elitist after all.

Damn no account entitled people make me mad.

[ZakarnRosewood]

If you are "Elite" Why would you need to use DF? Wouldnt you find an Elite Free Company full of other Elite people, so you can run dungeons in your Elite way?

Sorry, not trying to trivialize your issue. I have been in that situation before, Titan fight comes to mind and WHM getting knocked off every single time. As pissed off as I was and how much I screamed at my monitor, I kept my cool in game, continued to offer advise and ended up beating it. (Check out this thread for more details.) I think the defining trait of the undesirable "elite" player is not their supposed skill but how they handle the situation. Not what you say, but how you say it. Not trying to white knight anything, only providing the other side of the argument.

Just my 2gil.

[Kirschey]

-snip-
Damn no account entitled people make me mad.

You are a shining beacon of hope in this place.

[Talma]

Not at all, you are wrong.

If you don't have level 49 gear and you're doing level 50 content designed for people wearing level 50 gear, you're doing it all wrong, and you shouldn't even be there.

SE is adding an ilevel requirement to que for dungeons.

I guess the company that MAKES the game is elitist too.

WoW kiddies pls go

[Ileani]

As someone that was a "silent elitist" in Final Fantasy XI, I feel I can contribute to this discussion by sharing my past experiences and mindset. The purpose of my post is to try to help people understand this mindset. This is not a defense post.

From the onset, the problems stem from a person's objectives - clearing content, getting loot, having fun with friends, seeing new things, being carried, etc. The objective is different for everyone, and is one of the primary reasons people don't mesh well. For example, a couple of people think wiping on Ifrit HM is exhilarating or inspiring, whereas the rest of the group might hate it. One might be watching a movie in the background, because "its just a game." There is no right or wrong answer here, because nobody can tell you how to live your life. This is where most people have trouble.

From there, other problems exist that are core to any game design. One of those is mathematics.

When you have content that is based around a gear check, you depend on your healers to be putting out "X" amount of heals per second, on your DPS to properly execute their rotations and put out "Y" amount of damage, and your tank to manage cooldowns and have a basic level of HP to survive. In Final Fantasy XI, I used to play a Red Mage. When I casted an enfeeble on an HNM, there was a check. If I met the required stats/numbers, I was successful; otherwise, I was not. There is no personal skill in casting the spell - there is only a mathematical check to determine if it takes effect.

This is where, for me, elitism comes in. When you have enough experience with the content, it is possible to judge someone's theoretical maximum just by giving him/her a brief inspection. On the more difficult fights, the margins of error become smaller, thus requiring a higher average out of everyone. When the people that want to clear it as fast as possible perceive someone as "undergeared," they get angry because the theoretical maximum of the group was bumped down several arbitrary notches; now it involves more wiping or the possibility of not even clearing it at all. This has nothing to do with personal skill, nor am I defending the actions of people that curse and ostrasice others that don't have top tier gear the day before it was released. I am merely trying help people understand one possible mindset.

This is different to me than judging the person. I don't have a personal stake or vendetta against the person behind the character; it is only the character I care about. The attitude of the person can affect that, of course, but at a base level I can only work with the tangible things.

I do not have anywhere close to enough experience to judge other people's performance now; I only know how much I cure for, how fast I can pump them out, the cooldowns I have at my disposal, etc. I am actively trying to avoid the same mindset that I developed in Final Fantasy XI. The game is new and I am still learning, as are many others. A lot of people probably don't even have a level 50 battle class yet. I don't begrudge them their journey, presume to tell them what they should take seriously in life, or tell them how they should spend their time.

And now what anyone that looked at my post has been waiting for:

tl;dr = People want to do different things with their time. One possible explanation for "elitism," as it is coined in this specific context, is because games that revolve around math and theoretical maximums (that depend solely on gear) can anger those whose objectives conflict with people they perceive as "undergeared," - regardless of the actual difficulty of the content.

I cleared AK in a FC run, I had just a couple of Darklight accessories and a weapon, our tank only had a Darklight weapon (AF, mid level accessories), our SMN had a few darklight pieces, and our BRD had Ifrit's Bow with a few greens. It is possible. It was fun. It took a lot of time. Unfortunately, some people feel their definition of fun and their worldview is the only one that matters.

[Asmodeus]

The content in this game requires:
A. You are paying attention
B. You are always doing something (DPS, Heals, Tanking) All 3 roles don't get time to just stand around
C. You have gear to do your job correctly. If a boss hits for 3-4k, and you have 4.5k HP, you should NOT be doing the content. If a monster hits for 2k damage, and you can only heal for 600/cure, you should not be doing the content. If a boss requires you need to kill it in 3 minutes, and you can only make it to 3:30 and die, you should not be doing the content.

Stop whining please. This is an RPG. In Every RPG, you level something up to be strong enough to tackle the next enemy. Even Platformers dating back to N64's "Super Mario 64" required you acquired certain hats to access content.

Video games are not interactive movies. Stop acting like you are entitled to not actually do anything to play it. It's growing extremely tiresome.

We are not elitists, we are gamers.

Let me add you do no speak for "gamers" you speak for yourself. There is a reason I liked FF over mario bros or Zelda and it seems some of you would rather be playing one of those games.

There is nothing wrong with that, they were good games and I played both but I preferred Final Fantasy for a reason I find it a little disturbing that people are calling others whiners etc etc because they expect FF like gameplay over Zelda like gameplay, it is mind boggling.