Why do people not like summoner?

[pandabearcat]

Noone is arguing about the effectiveness of the playstyle. I think you guys are arguing the wrong case.

Its just that, in answer to the OP's question, people dislike summoners cause they thought it was going to like summons in the other games.

Which gameplaywise or balancewise, its not. And that makes some people upset.

Also the summons look dinky, and I'm sticking by this. I totally wouldn't have minded a tiny ifrit or tiny garuda, but we get tiny blobs that are tinted the same color as the primals. They are more cute and cuddly than deadly.

[Mindcl0ud]

Ok so tell me exactly what do you control about your pet. I would like to hear this apart from contagion and sustain.

Cause after doing the hard mode primals with my summoner they are a simple attack turrent only putting garuda on obey to use contagion then its right back to being a turrent.

edit:You know what forget it I am not going to bother.

I guess here is the thing to me. You still have to move it around for the most part, you are buffing it with spur and rouse and you are using contagion when you can. I guess I can better argue that it's additional cool downs, but still sort of a turret, another dot etc. I don't think it would be all that fun to, on the reverse, be a class that was all based around the pet. We aren't playing pokemon here. That's just my opinion on it. To me you are still using the summon, and making it do stuff.

Really though, the 'scholar' has a lot more to do with the pet then the summoner :P

[XenabelleS]

The thing I think people miss about the summoner class is the pure versatility in the following forms :

Bane - when in parties in an add fight, spreading your dots can be HUGE. Often, the 2nd add is at 60% by the time the party fights it, the 3rd add can be under 50% just from having my dots tick on it while it is pounding on the tank waiting for its turn to die.

Titan - not regularly useful but in a 4 man party you can use titan to off-tank if the tank is getting overwhelmed.

Ressurection - healer goes down? Well you can res the healer and heal the tank. Not as effectively but still dot up the target and then physica. This has saved parties in several instances - even in the Garlean dungeons.

We have the AOE limit break if there are no BLMs in the party. Only other job that has it.

3 Aoes at 50 + bane

So SMN has lots of support style versatility. Not much instant burst which can hurt in some cases where mechanics require things to die quickly and all you can do is spam ruin but it's a great job imo.

[shinros]

I guess here is the thing to me. You still have to move it around for the most part, you are buffing it with spur and rouse and you are using contagion when you can. I guess I can better argue that it's additional cool downs, but still sort of a turret, another dot etc. I don't think it would be all that fun to, on the reverse, be a class that was all based around the pet. We aren't playing pokemon here. That's just my opinion on it. To me you are still using the summon, and making it do stuff.

Really though, the 'scholar' has a lot more to do with the pet then the summoner :P

Thats what I am saying the scholar pet is more involved lol. I want something similar to that, I going to all the different forums and loads of people are disappointed in the class since people were expecting a pet class but they got a class that mainly focuses on dots for their damage instead of you and the summon working together to do more damage like the scholar and the fairy.

Plus I am more of a lore man myself the class quest was disappointing to me then how the summoner was designed from a gameplay standpoint was the final nail in the coffin.

This going to be another time I will post this I feel each pet needs to fill a roll in a party situation because only one pet being useful is silly. Oh square CHANGE ifrit reactive shield or give it to titan and have ifrit get another dps skill. All I want is the pet to interact with the summoner more and for each pet to actually be useful for different things within in the group. Instead of using garuda all the time.

Trayes wrote this in a topic. I think square should of went with something like this IMO.

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

[Kevee]

Ok so tell me exactly what do you control about your pet. I would like to hear this apart from contagion and sustain.

Cause after doing the hard mode primals with my summoner they are a simple attack turrent only putting garuda on obey to use contagion then its right back to being a turrent.

edit:You know what forget it I am not going to bother.

Uh, making sure it isn't in the AoEs for Ifrit/Garuda, and making sure it's in the center of the platform for titan? You know, Landslide knocks it back and then it won't receive any heals, and die.

[ApolloGenX]

Personally, I feel like the summ damage is questionable without good burst, and a blm has the dps plus utility in sleep. Summ aren't "bad"... they just seem to be okay dps without anything "extra".

[shinros]

Uh, making sure it isn't in the AoEs for Ifrit/Garuda, and making sure it's in the center of the platform for titan? You know, Landslide knocks it back and then it won't receive any heals, and die.

So thats it? Thats all you got? The scholar has a lot more to worry about than that.

[Kevee]

So thats it? Thats all you got? The scholar has a lot more to worry about than that.

And? What's your point?

[Mindcl0ud]

Snip

I think for me I don't disagree that these things would be cool, but I do like the class the way it stands. I am not familiar with the lore of the summoner class - so that might be why this is a bit different for me personally. I like how the class does pretty good DPS, if not one of the stronger DPS classes. We can move pretty effectively and still do strong DPS, not all classes can say that. I was way more amped about the B-Rez when I was leveling / early dungeons but now I know that it's pretty rough to give / get one in combat to be honest. For fights with adds, it's all about bane. If you tank knows how we are played / the summoner knows, you can bane dots onto an add, and blow it up with fester etc.

One thing I would like to see maybe to make this a bit better.. ( cont. on post 2 )

[Mindcl0ud]

It would be nice if ifrit lost that silly shield and really became something of quick burst pet, but with less over all damage. IE on a fight like garuda, you'd want him 100% because of the plumes. Right now you don't need him because garuda-egi can do the 90 potency aoe to a target and it's good enough. Give ifrit all the "I do AOE quickly with a packed punch" abilities, and give Garuda "I help with dots" abilities. Let her keep contagion, and maybe give her a thing like whatever it was in WoW for warlocks "Take DoTs off the target I have and put them on this target" so if something had enough HP to warrant it - you would do that. Maybe if it didn't spawn close to the main boss ( IE not worth it to try and Bane )