WAR vs PLD HP values and EHP.

[Sargon]

Whatever you may think, as long as common knowledge(garbage) says PLD>WAR, there is no hope.
I even heard that from some level 15 first job that has absolutely no way to figure such assessment by themselves.
And you cannot say it's not harder for a healer to heal a WAR than a PLD, so for once common knowledge might even not be garbage.

[oceanlord]

Whatever you may think, as long as common knowledge(garbage) says PLD>WAR, there is no hope.
I even heard that from some level 15 first job that has absolutely no way to figure such assessment by themselves.
And you cannot say it's not harder for a healer to heal a WAR than a PLD, so for once common knowledge might even not be garbage.

atleast get to level 50 and try tanking end game thing

[Sargon]

atleast get to level 50 and try tanking end game thing

My post didn't refer to end game.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, my point is precisely that people do not test WAR vs PLD over the course of 10 000 end game dungeons before making their decision on which class is usefull and which one is trash.

Two examples :
- Lost of people read online strategy guides for end game dungeons, if said guides recommend bringing PLD over WAR, what will they do?
- Healers tend to complain about WAR as tank even before end game (my own experience).

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Although it may not be much, don't forget Warrior's Thrill of Battle (push it to the EHP limit yaaar!)

I think what I'm partially seeing is closer to the "enough HP" for players, pre-Binding Coil. But with random players, I can see that having that high HP, particularly as a Paladin, can boost random player confidence at this stage. And confidence plays a role, as once players start panicking, and/or expect negative results, they tend to play worse and may even blame their own shortcomings on the tank's HP or gear (even if all three are true).

[oceanlord]

bs

you're on the wrong thread then, this thread mostly about end game, the EHP calculate using level 50 stats and buff
who going to test 10000 times?you?waste of time imo, if we know most hardcore raiding guild use paladin over warrior as MT because they know and they already experienced its harder to keep a warrior alive compared to paladin

mrd have no problem while leveling, even i think mrd is better while leveling
-either they will reroll or keep trying using war and wasting their time
-if your healer complain at leveling dungeon, then you are simply bad at war...

[HiirNoivl]

WAR's are not bad endgame tanks. They are different endgame tanks. They don't mitigate it, they eat it and self-cure. Your formula does not take any of this into account (nor does it take into account the buff from Stoneskin either.)

I'll give this well written report an F. See me after class.

[Blazn]

Interesting I already have more than you calculate afully geared warrior to have and I'm not even in darklight gear. Sorry but from what I see on my warriors numbers you are very wrong almost to the point where I say you are just making numbers up as you go along.

[Vic_Viper]

As a warrior who completed coil turn 4 (Server 1st, World 5th, http://www.twitch.tv/lleuca/c/2927614) I have to agree with the OP. Outside of cool-downs the difference isn't to large, but once they are factored in its obvious that the PLD is the superior tank, which kills me to say.

I still believe there are certain fights where PLD/WAR is slightly better than PLD/PLD. When the WAR can off-tank and drop stance during certain phases its dps is significantly higher than a PLD in sword stance.

[Ahlen]

Make Inner Beast a shield.
Move the +heal from stacks to defiance.
Make Foresight not horrible.
Make Storm's Eye last the same length as improved Maim.

That's all the changes I'd suggest for now, and see how that pans out.

[Titancleaver]

naive bs.

You're implying that the self-healing is nearly enough to make up for the mitigation difference between the PLD and the WAR. This is completely wrong. Tanking in any MMO will teach you that post-damage actions are always worse than pre-damage actions. The Warrior is far from completely broken, but blizzard tried to make a tanking class that relied on self-healing for tanking (Death Knights), it worked great in dungeons and even in early end-game but as soon as the real deal hit you in the face you were a goner. The exact same thing is going on here, the Warrior is in desperate need of a rework.

Mitigation/proper avoidance is definetly a must for a tanking class, how did Blizzard solve this? They gave the DK's absorbation shields. One of the best solutions to this kind of tanking and I'd love to see something similar come from sqeenix but this whole deal with "More HP and self-healing" has never worked, in any MMO that I'm aware of.