Count me amoung the skeptics ...

[Powercow]

Many of my fondest memories in gaming came from FFXI. Seeing a thunderstorm in Qufim for the first time, or riding on my first Airship to Kazham with a couple of other people who had also never been. Seeing the level 25 mission dragon and thinking to myself "Oh my god, we are so dead." I even logged my character off at that peninsula overlooking the ruins of Tavnazia because I wanted to quit FFXI at a location that reminded me why I played FFXI in the first place.

The first time I entered Qufim I thought to myself "wow, this place is rather impressive. Why are people talking about seeking shelter at night? It can't be all that bad!" I would have never thought that Qufim would be a focal point for so many story elements and much of the game for, well, ever. It started off as an interesting place and got more and more fascinating once you learned that every element of the zone was important.
The first time I entered Coerthas I thought to myself "wow, this place is all messed up. I bet there's a ton of interesting things happening here and things that have happened in the past that I'll get to see!" Well, guess who was wrong!

FFXIV started off strong, but the story elements really weakened for a long time. I never felt like anything I did during any of the mission quests after the first one were of importance or significance (until the rank 46 one, that one was just awesome.) There just isn't that sense of awe seeing things anymore. Sure there's a few nifty things here and there, like the purple smokestacks in Thanalan, the Bahamut skeleton in Mor Dhona, and the huge city of Ishgard, but none of those things have anything to do with the game right now. They're just pointless decorations, no more of a boon to the game than the pretty flowers growing off the side of the road.

I thought that the reason I couldn't get that feeling anymore was that I was getting more difficult to impress. Maybe. But there's definitely times when I still feel genuinely in awe of the situation, or when I feel that I've overcome something great... they're just too far and few between, and I have yet to really feel that more than maybe twice in FFXIV.

[Preypacer]

I thought that the reason I couldn't get that feeling anymore was that I was getting more difficult to impress. Maybe. But there's definitely times when I still feel genuinely in awe of the situation, or when I feel that I've overcome something great... they're just too far and few between, and I have yet to really feel that more than maybe twice in FFXIV.

Nope, I don't think it's that you've become more difficult to impress at all. I've wondered the same thing.

Then I go and look at how much more carefully crafted everything is in XI, how much more detailed, how much more thought out and complex and how well some areas interplay with each other, and I realize - for me - SE set a a bar for themselves with XI and they simply haven't been able to meet it yet in XIV, much less exceed it.

Example... let's look at an early area dungeon from XI, compared to one from XIV.

Horutoto Ruins in XI, compared to, say, Cassiopeia Hollow. Both lower level dungeons, both pretty large.

Here's a link to the map for the Hollow

Now, here are links to the maps for Inner Horutoto Ruins (Click Here) and the Outer Ruins ( Click Here)

The first thing you notice is how differently they're set up.

The Hollow is pretty much one large area of rooms and corridors with nothing really going on. A generic, albeit pretty, dungeon.

The Ruins, however, are separated into sections and are riddled with interesting sights, weird contraptions and other various points of interest. Further, they tie directly into the game's lore which Windurst players are introduced to early on in the missions. There's tons of interplay between one map and another, as well as between Sarutabaruta and the Ruins, with all the entrances scattered about, accessing different parts of it (Eldiemme Necropolis has a very similar setup).

Beyond that, you have the Ruins connecting deeper still to the Toraimorai Canal - a high level area that exists right below Windurst itself, massive tree roots breaking through the walls and pouring into the area. And of course, the Canal connects to Full Moon Fountain, another area of significance in the story line.

And that's just one comparison. This same attention to detail pervades XI. Almost all dungeons have their own "theme" and their own set of puzzles to solve. There are secret rooms, strange contraptions, remote corners that are difficult, and often dangerous to get to... and on and on. Each dungeon has its own design style and "personality".

Another way to put it.. Dungeons in XI feel like Final Fantasy dungeons to me. Dungeons in XIV (and other aspects of it) so far have been more "put together" like you might find in any other generic MMORPG on the market.

Being someone who loves exploring new places, figuring things out and learning the history and secrets behind a location, my experience in trying to do so in XIV so far has been disappointing; there seems to be no secrets to reveal.

[Sephr]

Horutoto Ruins in XI, compared to, say, Cassiopeia Hollow. Both lower level dungeons, both pretty large.

Here's a link to the map for the Hollow

Now, here are links to the maps for Inner Horutoto Ruins (Click Here) and the Outer Ruins ( Click Here)

The first thing you notice is how differently they're set up.

The Hollow is pretty much one large area of rooms and corridors with nothing really going on. A generic, albeit pretty, dungeon.

The Ruins, however, are separated into sections and are riddled with interesting sights, weird contraptions and other various points of interest. Further, they tie directly into the game's lore which Windurst players are introduced to early on in the missions. There's tons of interplay between one map and another, as well as between Sarutabaruta and the Ruins, with all the entrances scattered about, accessing different parts of it (Eldiemme Necropolis has a very similar setup).

Sorry but, I had to comment on this. Either you have some serious nostalgia going on or these ruins looked vastly different to you. Don't get me wrong, currently FFXIV's dungeons are pretty weaksauce, but to say the boring identical rooms of Horutoto that were connected by the same tunnels that were EVERYWHERE in FFXI was unique and interesting is just absolute bull.

You can try to embellish it as much as you'd like by intricately describing it whilst giving the Hollow (in this case) a bland and flavourless description (despite looking pretty damn gorgeous in the larger areas), that doesn't mean it's better.

[Preypacer]

Sorry but, I had to comment on this. Either you have some serious nostalgia going on or these ruins looked vastly different to you. Don't get me wrong, currently FFXIV's dungeons are pretty weaksauce, but to say the boring identical rooms of Horutoto that were connected by the same tunnels that were EVERYWHERE in FFXI was unique and interesting is just absolute bull.

You can try to embellish it as much as you'd like by intricately describing it whilst giving the Hollow (in this case) a bland and flavourless description (despite looking pretty damn gorgeous in the larger areas), that doesn't mean it's better.

No need to apologize.

Notice how I don't discuss them in terms of their overall graphics quality in my post - beyond a parenthetical aside about the Hollow looking good?

That's why your entire retort is absolutely moot. A strawman at best.

Also, I omit how they look because it really doesn't matter what area I'd chosen. I could have chosen Korrolloka Tunnel, or Sea Serpent Grotto or any other dungeon area in XI and used it. I chose the Ruins based on it being a low level area, comparable to the Hollow. It was not based on its graphics, at all.

My comparison is on the amount of care and detail that went into their creation in terms of layout, interactivity with other areas, hidden areas, puzzles, the amount of lore and importance they had - particularly in specific locations - in the world and its history, and so forth. The Ruins aren't merely a "dungeon". They're an ancient and very significant part of Vana'diel's history, especially Windurst's. I indicated, though perhaps not in so many words, how they maintain importance - even being "lower level" in how they lead to an important location in the game (Full-Moon fountain)...

The Hollow, by comparison, is a meandering tiled-together meshwork of colorful corridors and rooms. From what I've seen of them, other dungeons in XIV are no different. They have impressive graphics and some nicely detailed environment work... but not much else.

I deliberately left out the look of each area in my comparison, because XIV would take that, obviously, simply by virtue of being built on superior technology allowing a lot more mesh detail, higher detail textures, and more vibrant and dynamic lighting and shadowing.

It's also ironic that your response rests on a complaint of the Ruins "all looking the same", when excessive repetition in FFXIV's environments has been one of its biggest and longest-running complaints, going back to Alpha/Beta. Seems I'm not the one with a distorted perspective here.

[Demacia]

You know, after playing for 8 years I finally went through the three mage door for in Horutoto for the first time? Now that's a cool way to open a door (Though it's kind of a bitch for the aspir quest).

[Tatsumaki]

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

[Seif]

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

I call BS. The most drama that comes out from XI characters is from the different ministries and factions that are part of the main mission series that was available at launch. Sure they expanded it with additional quests later on but they already had a great base to work off from.

[TheVedis]

I call BS. The most drama that comes out from XI characters is from the different ministries and factions that are part of the main mission series that was available at launch. Sure they expanded it with additional quests later on but they already had a great base to work off from.

it isnt bs, alot of the stuff people here are reminising about was ALL POST NA LAUNCH

it was all zilart expansion stuff

[Demacia]

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

Original non-zilart zones are actually some of my favorites. Why do people keep finding excuses to defend XIV's release? yeah FFXI sucked at release, but it was their very first MMO.

[Shai]

I don't want to rain too much on this parade, but I'm going to say...

FFXI was my first MMO. I had tried Everquest for a minute (about a week) but I died over and over due to open world PvP or just sucking in general so XI was the first MMO I really sunk my teeth into. I played at NA launch. I was a long time FF fan, since the NA release of FF1 as a matter of fact. So keep all this in mind when I say...

I feel the same way you guys do, but I think it was because it was my first MMO. My real Golden Age of XI was my first trip to 75 and my first round of end-game content. Lots of my friends IRL played and we had a real good time. I loved exploring and I loved quests and lore and missions and fighting difficult fights.

WoW came out and we all decided to try it. There was a renewed spirit of adventure, but this time it lasted about 4-6 weeks. It didn't carry most of us through the whole year. Some friends did stay in WoW and others bounced back and forth, but I stuck it out in XI. I just couldn't get out of WoW what I had gotten out of XI - and often what I was still getting or at least what reminded me.

We all admitted to each other now and then that the "first year" we all played XI was a magic time that we'd probably never get to re-live again. No matter the MMO or the content or the game play. It was our first and it was very special for that reason most importantly.

Now, I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason XI was fun/special/good. I'm not saying that this is the ONLY reason XIV is bad. I just read all these posts about XI and I feel the exact same way, but I know that no matter the game I will probably never feel that way again about an MMO. It's like any good "first" that lives in you for a long, long time.