Count me amoung the skeptics ...

[Ludicrous]

I'm more unbelieving of the games future. Not that I didn't like FFXI, I loved it. But Limit Break quests weren't fun for me among other things.

I agree with alot of what you said, but think the future of this game to be a bit more bleak.

[Shai]

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

The argument fails because of some points I made and the fact that FFXI was the real "next gen MMO" after Everquest. It raised the bar a lot and it was a big name franchise like FF. It had a lot going for it that it could afford a year of flopping around like a dead fish. It had the time and players had the patience (notably the Japanese market instead of the Western one) to let it develop because they could only play it or ... what? Go back to what? EQ?

(I'm not saying EQ was bad. It was different, and older, and a pioneer - I'm just saying FFXI made it look and feel outdated once XI was working properly; simalarly EQ did that to Ultima).

The problem is that only works if it's your first MMO, or if the MMO is so far ahead of the competition that it can afford it. Maybe Tanaka thought it would be, but (as evidenced by player responses) it's not. It not only has to compete with finished games like XI and WoW, but it's come out at a time when MMO is the next big thing for gaming industry to milk for profit. It had a very big job if it was going to impress and become a player in the major leagues, and it failed.

It's unfair that a fledgling game is compared to games that are almost a decade old. It's "unfair" but that's life.

Aside: China recently requested from the UN that it not be held to the same "human rights" policies and laws as developed countries because they didn't have to do it when they were in the process of industrializing. They should be exempt from laws of public safety, environmental health and such because it's their first time up at bat, 100ish years late. Well, too bad. You play in the big leagues by the big leagues' rules.

Back to XIV - The argument fails because human interest isn't determined by comparisons to 10 years ago. It has to compare to what's around and available and working and interesting and fun. There's no time to grow in this industry any more. You have to hit the ground running and be able to keep up. XIV is failing to catch up and keep up after hitting the ground and falling on its face.

[zaviermhigo]

Progression should be added to this game. I mean we do have progression but it's all very streamlined, and XI's progression took time to discover I will admit. But going from 10 camps to 20 camps to 30 camps, is streamlined progression. I want a sense of progression somewhat like XI's, and to be fair, people have done that, they've gone out ground on mobs and told people which ones were the best sp at what camps, and if I want to grind I go and check those xiv grinding guides, but the average person believes the party seeking system is broken, which makes it broken because....NO ONE uses it...which makes grinding useless if you have less than 4 people, how do we market partying and not just "fail all your leves on purpose with 7 other random people in uldah", I really don't know damn, sorry :/

[Powercow]

The argument fails because of some points I made and the fact that FFXI was the real "next gen MMO" after Everquest. It raised the bar a lot and it was a big name franchise like FF. It had a lot going for it that it could afford a year of flopping around like a dead fish. It had the time and players had the patience (notably the Japanese market instead of the Western one) to let it develop because they could only play it or ... what? Go back to what? EQ?

While I think this is a bit off-topic to the, well, topic, it's a very good point. It's why this game didn't do so well, and all the arguments of "Well when FFXI came out it was in bad shape too!" are moot.

When FFXI came out there was almost no competition. Today, you have to compete against a dozen solid MMOs. Almost any niche can be found, whether it be in WoW, Rift, LOTRO, FFXI, Warhammer, AoC, Tera, DCUO, DDO, etc. etc. People won't be patient for a broken game to fix itself like they would have been 8 years ago. They'll simply jump ship.

I have no doubt that FFXIV will be a great game. I'm just hoping that there'll be people willing to give it another shot. When the PS3 version comes out and FFXIV is re-launched, they're going to have one hell of an uphill battle to convince people the game is good after so many people have said otherwise. Let's hope their marketing team is up to the challenge, because I think soon(ish) they're going to be the most important department to FFXIV's success or failure.

[zaviermhigo]

"When FFXI came out it didn't have any of this", is kind of a bad excuse, due to the whole "learn from your mistakes." If FFXI's first year was bad, then FFXIV should of at least not contained the same mistakes XI made its first year, it should of had new mistakes, at the very least lol.

[rainfish]

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

FFXI had 1 free month due to server problems, FFXIV has been out 7-8 months now and they still can't charge for fear of losing the majority of the players. FFXI was fine at release, or it would never have survived the first payment month.

The sad part about many of the people waiting for FFXIV to come good is, most are only sticking around cause the game is pretty and you hope the game comes upto standard to fill it out. That pretty look won't be anything special soon enough.

[Gramul]

That pretty look won't be anything special soon enough.

There is a difference between visual design and graphical improvement.
More brushes and paints do not necessarily a better painting make.

[gifthorse]

Even on PS3, FFXIV is still going to have to compete with Blade&Soul, so they really need to go all out for PS3 release.

Hopefully the battle system renews life into this faltering game. But somehow I distrust a combat system centered around auto attack. I've yet to see a next-gen MMO with auto-attack as a combat-system centerpiece, so... who knows if this new combat system will be enough.

I've written FFXIV off as a failure at this point, but I'd like to see it bounce back, for SE's sake.