YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

[Iskander]

Welcome back to FFXIV: ARR Fun Time Economics for the Economic New Learners.

Today’s lesson is Economic Earnings in Eorzea.

When we left off, we figured out that on an individual basis, costs at Lvl 50 for a very high player with one battleclass, one crafter, and one gather can be 240,000 gil. 48,000,000gil for every 200 people that needs to be countered.
Note: MARKET BOARD DOES NOT BRING IN ECONOMIC GIL. IT REMOVES IT VIA TAXES. UNDERSTAND THIS RULE.

Looking forward to earnings - hoping to see a good estimate on how much gil repeatable fates/leves are bringing (or COULD be bringing) into the economy every minute by the 1000's of people doing them. Just because gil generation isn't happening to you personally, the endgame player, doesn't mean its not happening. If gil generated goes to Player A and Player B needs to get gil for repairs by selling something to Player A that is perfectly valid. It will be interesting if all those FATEs/Leves continue to bring in gil long term or what indication (proof) there is that generation will somehow come to a stop. Its just a theory at this point.

We shall be using the same 200 person variable at lvl 50 since they have created such a high debt. If we used 1000 people, those 1000 would eventually create a relative debt that would need to be covered. This is assuming that those 1000 players wish to pursue endgame and not solely be there to cover the debts of those that do.

4. Earnings

A. FATEs: Fates at 50 tend to earn about 250 gil per person. We shall assume that one person spent 2 hours and completed 30 fates. This is accounting for the time it takes for FATEs to respawn. This would be an economic income of 7500 per player. If they were wearing their 50s gear, they could be in the hole for 500. If they were wearing cheap gear, they might have to spend 2k for repairs. No gear save a weapon, 500-1k repairs depending on weapon.
Tanks are probably not going to run around naked. Naked tank=early death.

If the 200 people that spent 48 mil gil to be on par with the game just made a profit of 5000 each (assuming they all wore horrid gear), that’s 1,000,000 into the economy. Only 47 million gil to go. That’s assuming that there hasn’t been another 200 people that have gotten to their point and created another 48million gil hole.

B. Leves: So it’s said that the 6 leve cap for 12 hours can net you 3000gil. That’s 6k in 24 hours. That’s equates to 1.2million gil every 24 hours by those 200 people. That’s still a 45.8mil gil hole made by 200 people.

B2. Gathering Leves: We shall assume that Player X with their gathering class decided to use their 6 leves for gathering leves instead. So that would put us back at 47mil gil debts. If they did a high level gathering leve 6 times, turning in only HQ items, they could make 3000gil per leve. That’s 18k a day individually. Times the 200 people, that’s 3.6mil gil a day. Leaving those 200 with 43.4million gil to cover.

C. Hests: So after your first completion bonus, Guildhests can approximately reap in about 240 gil. Will go 300gil for generosity. Those 200 people can form 25 groups of 8 for the final hest. The total gil brought in from that hest by those 25 groups amounts to 60,000gil. If they did it 5 times each without repairs, that’s 300,000gil. That still leaves 43.1mil gil. I think you can see how slow the counter is reducing the debt. These 200 people haven’t repaired anything yet.

C. Gathering Mats: So hopefully by now we all know that AH gil is not economy gil. It does not put gil into the economy. To add gil to the economy, you have to sell to NPCs. A lvl 50 gatherer with a stack of mats can sell them for around 600 gil to a vendor. We’ll assume they had 10 stacks to put a nice 6k gil profit. Minus the costs of time and repairs, probably 3k. With our 200 people, that’s 600,000gil for 10 lvl 50 materials from gathering. 42.5million gil to go.

Summary: We can keep going with dungeon gil (not profit since you need gear for dungeons, putting you at net loss), hests (need gear for that, so an eventual net loss), other means of gil generation. 200 people with that one bill has created a massive hole that takes way too long to counter. That is also assuming that there hasn’t been another 200 people that have done the same thing, creating another 48million gil loss. This is also assuming that during all this, the first 200 people have not done any repairs or delved into any of the cost activities from part 1.

As conservative as we might be, the fact is that endgame is too gil sink heavy and creates too big of a hole to play effectively at this time without putting a massive strain on the economy. It is an issue that needs to be fixed before the number grows too big to handle.

Notes:

Just say "Give me more gil" these walls of text are annoying when after reading them it always ends with give me more gil.
Listen the game generates more gil, and the market place is a good way to make money. highlighting 5% net loss as the means for why the marketplace doesnt help the economy is completely wrong. goods and services help the economy, with the Gil being taken out not equivalent to the gil being pumped in we see a net gain in gill, the market place functions fine.

the small gold sink just helps gil not just inflate. Currency generation and Economy work together but how much value the currency has determine how much is needed for goods. so how easy it is to get currency just means a higher or lower price tag on a Good or Service. what helps an economy is a need for goods and services. the currency is just the universal way of obtaining what you want.

Someone hasn’t read the big bold message.

[EliteNoob]

*shrug* I'm a tank and I'm sitting at 500k gil Of course, I'm also a miner and armorer.

I think people are just lazy and don't want to pick up crafting cause it's boring.

You don't make money of WAR you make money from working from the LAND and using your HANDS

[AsakuraVN]

At whiners, sorry to disappoint you, but the economy is perfectly fine. if you are having trouble making money, then start learning the market and start grinding resources for crafting and gathering.
Once you get a knack for it, you will find it much more rewarding then having it spoonfed to you.

No MMO should ever force every single people to learn crafting/gathering in order to make enough money to continue playing their endgame contents. If everybody are forced to craft/gather, then why buy stuff from the other crafters/gatherers? If they don't like crafting/gathering, why force them to do it just so they can have enough gil to repair? This is an MMO, not Atelier craps

No one ask Dungeon Crawlers should be filty rich, but they at least have to be able to afford enough gil for REPAIRING.

[reality_check]

I don't understand how everyone is having this issue. I finished my first 50 with 200k in my pocket, after a second class to level 50 I still haven't dropped below 100k. I don't do ANYTHING at all to make money. I haven't even sold a single thing on the auction house since I started this game in beta phase 3.

Also, what's with these incredibly long walls of text that claim they know how much money is going in and out of the game? I read Iskander's post claiming that the sky is falling on the economy. There's a lot of gil entering the economy from the quests (certain will give you 2500 gil just for some dumb completion) even if you can only do them once.

[redisdrunk]

In this thread; people looking at their wallets saying everything is fine concerning Gil.

Meanwhile, the bank is on fire and covered in angry bees. Fire-proof bees.

[Ispep]

I like there is something biting those who slammed to lvl 50 in the first 5 days without actually seeing how the game works as a whole... Take this in mind I played Hard core in FFXI at launch took 9 months to get lvl 75. Take a Step back from your dungeon grinding and actually do something to make money. You DO NOT have to have EVERYTHING right NOW.

[Tyro]

1. The economy is NOT made out of your personal wealth, be it high or low. Economy is the SUM of everyone's wealth. By doing FATES, Leves, quest, storyline, etc., millions of gil go INTO the economy everyday (not to say, every hour). The monetary surplus has to go somewhere in order to prevent inflation, that's why teleports, airships, ferry, repairs and everything else has some cost. The result of the input and output, must be really low in order to prevent inflation, and trust me, that is WAY worse.

2. I have stated that the inout-output relation in FFXIV economy tends to be low for the player, however, there is little use for that gil for several levels. Most of your gear comes from quests and dungeons. I haven't have to buy a single piece of gear for my Arcanist 24. So that little input remaining from all your activities, will continue to add up.

3. There other things besides gil that can be obtained from dungeons, leves and quests. Gear, allagan pieces, and more importantly, raw materials. There raw materials can be sold to the merchants, crafters, or you can be a crafter yourself. Either way, that is more gil moving here, not vanishing: you kill 10 mobs from your hunting log and get X Raw material >>> go to market and put it for sale >>> some crafter needs it for X recipe >>> The crafter sells said final product to a person who will use it >>> The person who is now using it, is now able to do X dungeon/fate/leve etc, gaining access to more gil.

As you can see, the money just changed hands, not vanished or was taken out of the economy. You made profit, the crafter made profit, the final user did too.

Now, if you want to be an active member of a certain cluster, with the aim of making gil. Go do some botany or mining, both yield shards and other raw materials.

4. Currently, as everyone go through the storyline, the need for gear at mid levels is minimum, for reasons mentioned before (2.). But as you need to level a second class whose gear is TOTALLY different, things will begin to change. Mid-level gear will be traded on a higher basis and crafters will make much more profit.

[dragonblade369]

I have almost a mil now also, doing quests, playing the market, crafting etc and im only lvl 45... also a TON of gil is constantly being injected into the game. There is a constant stream of fates that are taken down within 1-2 minutes of popping. Each of these gives the 50-100 or even more players zerging them 50-90 gil a each.

If you look at the small picture 60-100 gil per fate doesnt seem like much but when you realize 50-200 players all are getting this reward constantly per fate and among several zones it adds up to hundreds of thousands of gil per hour. Add the gil from duengon runs, quests, selling trash mats/ items to shops from monster drops...

Im just not seeing the problem people complain that its hard to make money but it just isnt true.

This thinking is a bit flawed because at lv30+, the gil reward for fates are lower than the repair cost of doing the fate itself. The repair cost are taken out of economy...

[Iskander]

someone mentioned newbie gil, so lets add them to the showcase of Economic Fun Time.

I don't understand how everyone is having this issue. I finished my first 50 with 200k in my pocket, after a second class to level 50 I still haven't dropped below 100k. I don't do ANYTHING at all to make money. I haven't even sold a single thing on the auction house since I started this game in beta phase 3.

Also, what's with these incredibly long walls of text that claim they know how much money is going in and out of the game? I read Iskander's post claiming that the sky is falling on the economy. There's a lot of gil entering the economy from the quests (certain will give you 2500 gil just for some dumb completion) even if you can only do them once.

Checking your lodestone character, you don't know much about the costs yet because the gear you are wearing is what one would be wearing when they first reach 50. You have not improved your gear at all, which means you also probably haven't started the main parts of being 50: the costs of your relic, and the costs of trying to beat Primal HMs. Also, with leveling another battle class, in this case your WHM, you are not expected to accrue as many costs due Fate grinds, and dungeon drops. Once you start partaking in the activities of part 1, which explains the costs of a mere 200 people playing endgame, you may understand.

As for the gil from newbies... It'd take 240 people's quest gil to merely break even with 200 endgamers. If those 240 accrue the same amount of costs as the first 200, that'll make the new bill 52.8million gil. it'll take 264 more to break even. In order to merely break even, you will constantly need an influx of new people at an exponential rate in order to mere break even with the costs of endgame. Once the influx of new players slows, the debt would not be able to be able to be broken.

Edit: adjusted numbers for accuracy.

[HealBus]

You personal Gil earning ability has NOTHING to do with this discussion on economic deflation.

I could be a billionaire in Japan (a country that has it's economy crippled by deflation). Which factor do you think that a discussion about deflation cares about? The deflation or the billionaires ability to succeed in the bad economy.
I'll give you a hint: Read the damn OP.