We need more ways to make gold in this game.

[Scerick]

I love all of the responses still saying "Just craft stuff, you'll make tons of money!".

Crafting an item does not introduce new gil into the economy.

Player A pays Crafter B for Item C.

Who pays Player A? We are talking about the things/npcs/drops that are "paying" Player A so he can buy Crafter B's crafted items.

The problem is Player A is running into issues with fixed/increasing cost gil sinks, has ran out of quests to do (this has nothing to do with hitting 50 before other people, everyone who continues to play the game will eventually also run out of quests), and can't make enough to pay off the gil sinks in the game without taking money from other players. This is a problem.

If you can't make enough money to slowly increase your own personal wealth in spite of the current gil sinks in the game without ever interacting with another player's own wealth this is a gil deficit and the economy will go broke. This is a real issue, that is happening right now, and we would like it to be fixed.

[WVUTrip]

This thread makes me terrified for the future economy of the world. Econ needs to be mandatory in HS. I have only played his game for a week and I can already tell there is a major Gil sink problem. Obviously I am gaining Gil now since I'm leveling but once quests stops the money stops. Once the money stops the game stops.

If Gil generation is so bad that a person can not run dungeons or raids only and break even then this game will def not last. Once you start forcing people to do things they do not want to do just to do things they want to do in a game that is for fun, then the game will start to loose many players. I understand to some MMO players the game is their job so they see nothing wrong with it. But for most that have to work and have families they can not spend hours doing things they don't enjoy. They will just leave once their Gil drys up.

[OldGeezer]

I love all of the responses still saying "Just craft stuff, you'll make tons of money!".

Crafting an item does not introduce new gil into the economy.

Player A pays Crafter B for Item C.

Snip...

If you can't make enough money to slowly increase your own personal wealth in spite of the current gil sinks in the game without ever interacting with another player's own wealth this is a gil deficit and the economy will go broke. This is a real issue, that is happening right now, and we would like it to be fixed.

Not if you sell it to a vendor it's not. Whether you get gil from a quest reward or gil from selling items to a vendor that is adding gil to the economy. So crafting does add money to the system if you don't sell it to other players. I do al the crafting logs and sell the items back to vendors and I make money doing it. So crafing adds gil to the economy.

[Keizerul]

Not if you sell it to a vendor it's not. Whether you get gil from a quest reward or gil from selling items to a vendor that is adding gil to the economy. So crafting does add money to the system if you don't sell it to other players. I do al the crafting logs and sell the items back to vendors and I make money doing it. So crafing adds gil to the economy.

Although, I do agree you are putting gil into the economy. I think you're still missing the big picture. The question is. Is there enough crafters like you,
whom sell to npc, generating enough gil to counter the millions of gil leaving economy per day?

Average cost of transportation averages 300 gil. If players use paid transport 10,000 per day. That is 3,000,000 gil leaving the economy everyday. The 300 gil and 10,000 uses is being conservative.

[OldGeezer]

Snip...
Average cost of transportation averages 300 gil. If players use paid transport 10,000 per day. That is 3,000,000 gil leaving the economy everyday.

They say if you subsidize something, you get more of if. That is exactly what's happening here. People want to drive in the fast lane, but they realize that they're going to run out of gas so they want SE to give them more gas. Transport costs are optional plus you are given a free return that refreshes every 10 minutes.

You can call BS if you want but you can gather and make all those materials.

Most of that stuff is gatherable. Except for 3-4 ingredients all recipes between 1-29 are gatherable, craftable or farmable and can make you money by selling to vendors.

[Scerick]

Most of that stuff is gatherable. Except for 3-4 ingredients all recipes between 1-29 are gatherable, craftable or farmable and can make you money by selling to vendors.

You're logic is laughable. I even outlined a low level item, where the farmed materials sell back to the vendor for more than the completed item does. You have yet to provide any sort of factual basis to your claims.

Brass Ring
Sells for 21 gil

• x1 Fire Shard
• x1 Wind Shard
• x1 Brass Ingot
• x1 Wind Shard
• x2 Copper Ore
• x1 Zinc Ore
• x1 Ragstone Whetstone
• x1 Wind Shard
• x2 Ragstone

This is a level 20 crafted item. How can you possibly sit there and tell me that farming this item, crafting it, and selling it to a vendor is turning a profit for you @21 gil? Even if you are somehow magically turning a 21 gil profit, because you somehow avoid all repair costs... it would take you selling 5715 of these to a vendor to make up for one 24 man raid coming out with 5k in repair costs per player. I would also like to point out that 5k is tremendously undershooting the cost of repair, considering I only have 3 pieces of level 50 gear and am already hitting that cost.

This doesn't even consider the fact that the materials needed to make this item are currently worth more on the MW than the finished item to players or vendors. This simple fact illustrates that there is not enough gil being generated for players to pay crafters for their time/effort (finished product mark-up does not exist). This in and of itself is a glaring issue that further illustrates the issues with the game's economy.

[OldGeezer]

You're logic is laughable. I even outlined a low level item, where the farmed materials sell back to the vendor for more than the completed item does. You have yet to provide any sort of factual basis to your claims.

My logic is sound but your ignorance on gathering and crafting is quite profound. I can gather all the items in western and central thanlan.and for this item with no TP required, I'll take less than 1% damage for making it. Now to fully repair my level 20 gear will be around 850 gill. So I can easily make way more than 40 brass rings to recover the repair cost of making brass rings. So yes, I can make profit on brass rings. I don't need to support your raiding habits. Just because you choose to burn through your money doesn't mean SE has to support your poor spending habits.

[Scerick]

Not if you sell it to a vendor it's not. ***Snip***

I'm calling BS on this. Math or it didn't happen. Looking at level 1-50 crafting, blacksmithing for example:

Rampager - Green Item
Main Hand › Marauder's Arm
Sells for 1,081 gil

Materials needed:

• x1 Fire Cluster
• x1 Earth Cluster
• x2 Darksteel Plate
• x6 Ice Crystal
• x4 Darksteel Nugget
• x12 Fire Crystal
• x12 Darksteel Ore
• x1 Spruce Lumber
• x3 Wind Crystal
• x3 Spruce Log
• x1 Rampager Head
• x1 Fire Cluster
• x1 Earth Cluster
• x1 Darksteel Ingot
• x1 Fire Cluster
• x2 Darksteel Nugget
• x6 Fire Crystal
• x6 Darksteel Ore
• x9 Coke
• x2 Darksteel Nugget
• x6 Fire Crystal
• x6 Darksteel Ore

You're doing all of this for less than 1081 Gil?

Cobalt Claws - White Item
Main Hand › Pugilist's Arm
Sells for 474 gil

• x6 Fire Shard
• x6 Earth Shard
• x1 Cobalt Ingot
• x5 Fire Shard
• x1 Iron Ore
• x2 Cobalt Ore
• x1 Brass Ingot
• x1 Wind Shard
• x2 Copper Ore
• x1 Zinc Ore
• x1 Cobalt Plate
• x5 Ice Shard
• x2 Cobalt Ingot
• x10 Fire Shard
• x2 Iron Ore
• x4 Cobalt Ore
• x1 Mahogany Lumber
• x5 Wind Shard
• x3 Mahogany Log
• x1 Horn Glue
• x3 Water Shard
• x2 Aldgoat Horn

You're doing all of this for less than 474 Gil?

Bronze Dagger - White Item
Main Hand › Gladiator's Arm
Sells for 8 gil

• x1 Fire Shard
• x1 Earth Shard
• x1 Bronze Ingot
• x1 Fire Shard
• x2 Copper Ore
• x1 Tin Ore
• x1 Maple Lumber
• x1 Wind Shard
• x3 Maple Log
• x1 Bone Chip

Selling the farmed materials is more gil than selling to a vendor here (still a net loss)...

Bronze Ingot
Costs 9 gil from a vendor

• x1 Fire Shard
• x2 Copper Ore
• x1 Tin Ore

At level 50 even if you're gathering all of your own material and not purchasing from the Market Ward your cost of farming the materials out-weighs the cost of the produced item sold to a vendor.

So rather than posting baseless opinions as "facts" lets see some math backing up that vendoring crafted goods puts money into the economy. And before you come at me with Craft-leves, this has already been discredited as a reliable source of adding money back into the economy several times, many pages ago.

[WVUTrip]

Of course we are talking about a Japanese company. Their whole country in real life is teetering on the edge of deflation. They are having to print and buy back bonds in massive quantity just to try and raise their inflation to over 1%.

Obviously this has nothing to do with anything but thought it was funny to make the comparison.

[LordMacabre]

At level 50 even if you're gathering all of your own material and not purchasing from the Market Ward your cost of farming the materials out-weighs the cost of the produced item sold to a vendor.

And let us not forget, you have repair costs to gather or craft too, so you'd need to even reduce your gains there further.

Point blank, if it costs more in repairs than I make when doing a successful dungeon run, something is wrong.