History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

[Physic]

So basically what you guys are saying, is that if archer cant outdamage everyone else, they should cease to exist? That playstyle is irrelevant? The point of archer is to do the most dmg with the least risk, and no other role would be worthy of them?
Lets put it like this, since it really is all about battle afjustments, class uniqueness and the like, for your vision how should these classes work, what should thier role be, and are they achieving that now? also ask yourself if that role is a viable role, and useful in the combat situations that will present themselves in game

I see it this way
Glad, best one on one tank, best for high dmg monsters
IN DD setup, above average one on one potential
Pug most adaptive in defense and offense, close range. excels at single monster combat and mid damage/low accuracy monster tanking.
lnc, best in mid range combat, team buffs and tp management,
marauder, high spikes, excels in close range multi target combat and multi target tanking mid damage monsters.
Archer long range combat specialist, with burst potential and many utility skills.

I dont think any DD should have inately the best Damage, unless they are giving some great utility.

one big key is you have to create situations where one advantage doesnt outweigh all others, thats up to the design of the mobs and the best ways to fight them.

[Xzen]

So basically what you guys are saying, is that if archer cant outdamage everyone else, they should cease to exist? That playstyle is irrelevant? The point of archer is to do the most dmg with the least risk, and no other role would be worthy of them?
Lets put it like this, since it really is all about battle afjustments, class uniqueness and the like, for your vision how should these classes work, what should thier role be, and are they achieving that now? also ask yourself if that role is a viable role, and useful in the combat situations that will present themselves in game

I see it this way
Glad, best one on one tank, best for high dmg monsters
IN DD setup, above average one on one potential
Pug most adaptive in defense and offense, close range. excels at single monster combat and mid damage/low accuracy monster tanking.
lnc, best in mid range combat, team buffs and tp management,
marauder, high spikes, excels in close range multi target combat and multi target tanking mid damage monsters.
Archer long range combat specialist, with burst potential and many utility skills.

I dont think any DD should have inately the best Damage, unless they are giving some great utility.

one big key is you have to create situations where one advantage doesnt outweigh all others, thats up to the design of the mobs and the best ways to fight them.

Ok I can agree with that pretty much. If you take the only thing they are good for away you replace it with some major support type abilities. Now that is fair and makes sense.

[Physic]

Ok I can agree with that pretty much. If you take the only thing they are good for away you replace it with some major support type abilities. Now that is fair and makes sense.

yeah, im just influenced by some of things they claimed they would have. Mostly the various arrows for different situations, like i said, even if they just keep them straight DD, thats fine as long as the fact that they have less defense matters in real game situations. Right now, this may not be the case.

I honestly think all classes should be interesting and varied, but non should be the ultimate answer to most situations.

[Joe_Cool]

yeah, im just influenced by some of things they claimed they would have. Mostly the various arrows for different situations, like i said, even if they just keep them straight DD, thats fine as long as the fact that they have less defense matters in real game situations. Right now, this may not be the case.

I honestly think all classes should be interesting and varied, but non should be the ultimate answer to most situations.

I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. ARC has to buy arrows and that HAS to count for something, rather certain people want to admit it or not. Unless you've spent millions of gil on arrows like I have, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. Sure, I can buy the 2 gil each warped arrows and then my DPS would drop closer to the other DD's (Arrows also affect acc and crit. hit rate). But I don't. I use the arrows that are optimal for my rank when there is a party or NM hunt run going on so that I can further help that party/linkshell/etc.

And to those that want to say "But ARC can attack from a far, safe distance", they are also the weakest to attacks out of all of the other DD's and with that you also have to consider the very high Enmity that an ARC's abilties/attacks create.

[Physic]

I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. ARC has to buy arrows and that HAS to count for something, rather certain people want to admit it or not. Unless you've spent millions of gil on arrows like I have, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. Sure, I can buy the 2 gil each warped arrows and then my DPS would drop closer to the other DD's (Arrows also affect acc and crit. hit rate). But I don't. I use the arrows that are optimal for my rank when there is a party or NM hunt run going on so that I can further help that party/linkshell/etc.

And to those that want to say "But ARC can attack from a far, safe distance", they are also the weakest to attacks out of all of the other DD's and with that you also have to consider the very high Enmity that an ARC's abilties/attacks create.

the reward for you buying arrows is that you can do damage without taking damage, what was the reward for ninjas buying elemental magic tools? debuffing the mob and doing damage from a distance. Your best arrows shouldnt put you above other DD, they should keep you close to other DD, it really is a fact that if you manage your hate you can attack with no risk, that is simply not an option for other DD, almost every mob in the game has close range aoes, most of multiple types.

A charachter who attacks by throwing money at the mob should not be the most hax job in the game, all your saying is that you should be able to buy your way to being the best DD in this game.

Every DD can attack from range for money too, it just costs more, does less damage, and we cant use any attack based tp skills with it. Basically archer gets way more bang for thier buck with ranged attacks. Look at it as savings.

[Joe_Cool]

the reward for you buying arrows is that you can do damage without taking damage, what was the reward for ninjas buying elemental magic tools? debuffing the mob and doing damage from a distance. Your best arrows shouldnt put you above other DD, they should keep you close to other DD, it really is a fact that if you manage your hate you can attack with no risk, that is simply not an option for other DD, almost every mob in the game has close range aoes, most of multiple types.

A charachter who attacks by throwing money at the mob should not be the most hax job in the game, all your saying is that you should be able to buy your way to being the best DD in this game.

Every DD can attack from range for money too, it just costs more, does less damage, and we cant use any attack based tp skills with it. Basically archer gets way more bang for thier buck with ranged attacks. Look at it as savings.

1.) Many of those mobs with those aoe tp moves you mentioned are cone shaped. Meaning, the melee DD can avoid them also. I don't see the Melee DD having to pay gil for each swing/attack they do against those kinds of mobs!

2.) Like I mentioned in the second paragraph you quoted of mine, there is a counter to the high DPS of ARC. They kill faster, but they also die faster.

3.) ARC getting a bang for their buck is by higher DPS.

[Physic]

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1.) Many of those mobs with those aoe tp moves you mentioned are cone shaped. Meaning, the melee DD can avoid them also. I don't see the Melee DD having to pay gil for each swing/attack they do against those kinds of mobs!

2.) Like I mentioned in the second paragraph you quoted of mine, there is a counter to the high DPS of ARC. They kill faster, but they also die faster.

3.) ARC getting a bang for their buck is by higher DPS.

they die faster is irrelevant with a tank, in fact, with a tank, and hate management, they are the last to die.

You pay so that you are the last to die

Even mobs with conal aoe, also have circlular aoe, most of the mobs have this, some even have special traits, like raptors where if you dont stand in front and take thier conal aoe, you can get hit by the tail in a huge aoe. all this while the archer laughs it up in the background like HAHA i killed you all.