History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

[Aion]

Point is, any archer can take it like a thaumaturge for long enough to get it onto another ranger if the reward is high enough. All it takes is the right abilities. You all act like utsusemi is what drove rangerburns when it's not. It's the ability of people more creative than you are to do what it takes to make it happen. Great buffalo only has 32,000 HP. How fast do you think 8 archers could take it down? As fast as 8 thaumaturges?

Emulate. Firm conviction. Punishing barbs. Sacrifice 3. Stoneskin. Oh an archer can take more hits than you think it can. You just haven't given them the proper...MOTIVATION.

That'll come.

Plus, rangers don't need to survive,because there's thaumaturges who can out-DD and out-tank gladiators. See? so the 7 archers invite the thaumaturge! Annnnnd your argument is trashed.

Archers are squishy bawwwww....oh right our 2nd jobs are all thaumaturges because that's just the kind of jobs we all play lolol JELLY?

Waiting your ARC R50 soloing Great Buffalo video.

[Peregrine]

Waiting your ARC R50 soloing Great Buffalo video.

You just don't comprehend anything relevant to the discussion, do you?

Seven archers and a thaumaturge obviates the need for any archer to tank anything, even if they could. In fact, it completely negates any archer's argument that they are a "glass cannon". Pathetic argument, irrelevant to the discussion. That thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo. You aren't a glass cannon. You're a cannon.

That's why you and six other archers will carry around a token thaumaturge.

Again, not hard to see your all's intentions. You have nothing new that you're bringing to the table. Every move you make is predictable and expected, because before there was you, there was a legion of rangers doign the same thing. What they couldn't tank themselves, they carried a token paladin or ninja.

[Joe_Cool]

You just don't comprehend anything relevant to the discussion, do you?

Seven archers and a thaumaturge obviates the need for any archer to tank anything, even if they could. In fact, it completely negates any archer's argument that they are a "glass cannon". Pathetic argument, irrelevant to the discussion. That thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo. You aren't a glass cannon. You're a cannon.

That's why you and six other archers will carry around a token thaumaturge.

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

[Aion]

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

This. so the argument is not proving ARC should be nerfed, but THM IS.

[Peregrine]

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

That's exactly what you'll do. You're just extremely pissed that someone sees exactly what you're trying to do, and unlike you they're not impressed with your grand schemes to rule the endgame.

A. Kite it!
B. Token tank! Not that one, the one that can heal itself and punishing barb!
C. Ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger! UHranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger.

GET THAT PUGILIST OUT OF HERE. Waste of a Victimize ability!

[Joe_Cool]

That's exactly what you'll do. You're just extremely pissed that someone sees exactly what you're trying to do, and unlike you they're not impressed with your grand schemes to rule the endgame.

A. Kite it!
B. Token tank! Not that one, the one that can heal itself and punishing barb!
C. Ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger! UHranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger.

GET THAT PUGILIST OUT OF HERE. Waste of a Victimize ability!

Extremely pissed? Not at all. To be honest, you call out nerf nerf nerf the ARC but in reality, all the melee's and ARC bring something to the table. You have LNC with abilties such as Comrade of Arms which increases the DPS of ALL the DD in the party by increasing their TP generation and Speed Surge which gives itself haste and replenishes the other DD's health on each attack. You have the MRD which is great for clearing multiple mobs (better than an ARC), GLA which is good at holding hate and taking the brunt of the attacks, PGL with its enfeebling WS's that help quite a bit and can also lower enmity of other DD. You make it sound as though ARC is greater than ALL DD in the game in every situation but that simply isn't true. You are blowing things wayyyyy out of proportion. There are situations where an ARC may be better than other DD but there are also situations to where the other DD are BETTER than an ARC.

And as far a job/class balances, the 2 mages are really the only ones that need it. As both of them, yes CON too, are uber jobs that are greater than all of the other classes.


And as far as your parse stats. You should keep in mind that there are many variences to that kind of thing like:

1.) Skill-Each player has a certain skill and will do different dmg's based on that skill.

2.) Gear-Of course affects the DPS output.

3.) Point Allotment-Yeah yeah yeah I know it's kind of broken but it does mean something and does affect DPS.

4.) Luck-It's a matter of luck on rather a WS critical hits or even misses.


Parse is great for that extra competition between a group, but doesnt really hold any water when trying to use it to see which job/class is better at DPS because like I mentioned earlier, different people have different skill, gear, point allotment, luck, etc. and it also doesnt take in consideration the extra DPS something like a LNC's Comrade in Arms creates. In other words, it doesn't add the extra dmg that other DD do from the LNC's Comrade in Arms to said LNC.

[Physic]

Extremely pissed? Not at all. To be honest, you call out nerf nerf nerf the ARC but in reality, all the melee's and ARC bring something to the table. You have LNC with abilties such as Comrade of Arms which increases the DPS of ALL the DD in the party by increasing their TP generation and Speed Surge which gives itself haste and replenishes the other DD's health on each attack. You have the MRD which is great for clearing multiple mobs (better than an ARC), GLA which is good at holding hate and taking the brunt of the attacks, PGL with its enfeebling WS's that help quite a bit and can also lower enmity of other DD. You make it sound as though ARC is greater than ALL DD in the game in every situation but that simply isn't true. You are blowing things wayyyyy out of proportion. There are situations where an ARC may be better than other DD but there are also situations to where the other DD are BETTER than an ARC.

And as far a job/class balances, the 2 mages are really the only ones that need it. As both of them, yes CON too, are uber jobs that are greater than all of the other classes.


And as far as your parse stats. You should keep in mind that there are many variences to that kind of thing like:

1.) Skill-Each player has a certain skill and will do different dmg's based on that skill.

2.) Gear-Of course affects the DPS output.

3.) Point Allotment-Yeah yeah yeah I know it's kind of broken but it does mean something and does affect DPS.

4.) Luck-It's a matter of luck on rather a WS critical hits or even misses.


Parse is great for that extra competition between a group, but doesnt really hold any water when trying to use it to see which job/class is better at DPS because like I mentioned earlier, different people have different skill, gear, point allotment, luck, etc. and it also doesnt take in consideration the extra DPS something like a LNC's Comrade in Arms creates. In other words, it doesn't add the extra dmg that other DD do from the LNC's Comrade in Arms to said LNC.

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class, what makes archer unique is two things

Ranged attacks
and archer only abilities which are:
any special arrows, (at this point i dont know if any exist)
Multishot trifurcate close shot and farshot and various archer only weaponskills

comrade isnt unique to lnc, the only unique to pug WS are seismic shock and Simian thrash i believe.
Its the weapons innate abilities, and the 1 discipline only skills that make you better. There is no real reason for Archer to have more damage, unless having less defense is actually a factor in combat. So either it should be a factor, or other DDs need more offense or archer needs less offense.

This is all supposing they actually do have more offense, which regardless what he says will be show with parsers and whatnot, as well by eyeballing it. If its true its going to keep coming up.

If it is true, i hope they have already accounted for it in the new battle system, but since we dont know that yet, its a valid point.

[Joe_Cool]

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class

Yes but when used on another job/class, it is a degraded use of it.
BTW, Speed Surge can only be used on LNC

[Xzen]

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class, what makes archer unique is two things

Ranged attacks
and archer only abilities which are:
any special arrows, (at this point i dont know if any exist)
Multishot trifurcate close shot and farshot and various archer only weaponskills

comrade isnt unique to lnc, the only unique to pug WS are seismic shock and Simian thrash i believe.
Its the weapons innate abilities, and the 1 discipline only skills that make you better. There is no real reason for Archer to have more damage, unless having less defense is actually a factor in combat. So either it should be a factor, or other DDs need more offense or archer needs less offense.

This is all supposing they actually do have more offense, which regardless what he says will be show with parsers and whatnot, as well by eyeballing it. If its true its going to keep coming up.

If it is true, i hope they have already accounted for it in the new battle system, but since we dont know that yet, its a valid point.

They should buff caster dmg a bit. Take away most of their heals. Reduce ARC defense that way all the range classes can be 1 shot. Then reduce the range so they have to stand within the mobs aoe range. bam the ranged classes are balanced. Better yet why dont we take all the utility and support skills/magic and split them between all the jobs. Buff arc, thm, and con defense and hp. Take away their range. Now everything is balanced. Oh wait WoW is over this way if I want to play a game like that.