Say no to Cross-world group finders

[viion]

As i agree that server populations can be different i do not feel that is the main problem with cross sever ques.

1. Ninja loot
2. Lack of accountability in general which leads to lazyness and free loading (also known as a collective action problem).
3. Break down of a community
4. Break down of reasons to leave main cites.

Any political scientist can identify this as text book collective action problem.
- simple definition, a situation in which the uncoordinated actions of each person may not result in the best outcome he or she can achieve.

Hmm, not sure why you quoted me. I did not say it is a main problem, its just an issue that causes flaming and argument and people getting angry. But it doesnt happen all the time and is no different than maybe going on your fave multiplayer game on xbox and being with randomers.

Anywho

As I've said Ninja Loot is NOT a reason for it, here is few reasons why

1. It already happens, time after time it happens, theres no risk of reputation for many reasons under that:
   1. You dont need many people to do anything
   2. Your reputation is meaningless to do anything, part of 1
   3. People forget very soon
2. Loot is random, you didnt "lot" it and grab it, it just landed in your pocket.
   1. That person that did "steal" is going to be back most likely so you can decline playing then

You cant say a system will cause something that already exists. And which this game does absolute nothing to prevent happening.

XI reputation ment a lot because you NEEDED other people, in this game you can do everything on your own or with close friends. And looking at the future it is fairly certain the team are keeping it that way. Bad reputation in XI ment no linkshells, no linkshell ment no Dynamis, no Limbus, no Sky not being able to do any of the things that used to require a lot of people. (Sadly all perished now...) But in XIV it is not the case. No linkshell means wait 1 month and then get one, and even having no linkshell you'll have friends who will stand by you even if you are the biggest douche on the server, so with 3-4 friends you've got the entire game covered.

[Bled]

Hmm, not sure why you quoted me. I did not say it is a main problem, its just an issue that causes flaming and argument and people getting angry. But it doesnt happen all the time and is no different than maybe going on your fave multiplayer game on xbox and being with randomers.

Anywho

As I've said Ninja Loot is NOT a reason for it, here is few reasons why

1. It already happens, time after time it happens, theres no risk of reputation for many reasons under that:
   1. You dont need many people to do anything
   2. Your reputation is meaningless to do anything, part of 1
   3. People forget very soon
2. Loot is random, you didnt "lot" it and grab it, it just landed in your pocket.
   1. That person that did "steal" is going to be back most likely so you can decline playing then

You cant say a system will cause something that already exists. And which this game does absolute nothing to prevent happening.

XI reputation ment a lot because you NEEDED other people, in this game you can do everything on your own or with close friends. And looking at the future it is fairly certain the team are keeping it that way. Bad reputation in XI ment no linkshells, no linkshell ment no Dynamis, no Limbus, no Sky not being able to do any of the things that used to require a lot of people. (Sadly all perished now...) But in XIV it is not the case. No linkshell means wait 1 month and then get one, and even having no linkshell you'll have friends who will stand by you even if you are the biggest douche on the server, so with 3-4 friends you've got the entire game covered.

Good points on ninja looting. However ninja looting directly correlates to point #2 that i made, cross server que creates a collective action problem which no mater how you look at it increases ninja looting/trolling of any kind.

Edited above for your enjoyment.

[viion]

Good points on ninja looting. However ninja looting directly correlates to point #2 that i made, cross server que creates a collective action problem which no mater how you look at it increases ninja looting/trolling of any kind.

Edited above for your enjoyment.

Sorry here, I did not understand your #2 so I ignored it for now to just concentrate onto the ninja point, and while Trolling is a valid point I still think Ninja looting is not one (Mind you, there is no existing of Looting, the game does it, not you).

But if you could explain more on this cross server que thingy, or expand on your #2 I could see what you're trying to say, you seem to have more experience in it than I do, I've never ever played a game with it, (I only know wow does it? And only played it like once for an hr or so a long time ago.)

[Bled]

Sorry here, I did not understand your #2 so I ignored it for now to just concentrate onto the ninja point, and while Trolling is a valid point I still think Ninja looting is not one (Mind you, there is no existing of Looting, the game does it, not you).

But if you could explain more on this cross server que thingy, or expand on your #2 I could see what you're trying to say, you seem to have more experience in it than I do, I've never ever played a game with it, (I only know wow does it? And only played it like once for an hr or so a long time ago.)

My second point was based on the political science theory of the Collective Action Problem. If you are really interested in it look it up, it is a very interesting theory and much to deep for me to really lay out and explain on a forum post which id rather not do lol.

The basic premise of it though is unless there is coercion or some other special device to make individuals in a group act in their common interest, rational, self-interested individuals will not act to achieve their common or group interests. By implementing cross server ques for instanced dungeons you are decreasing accountability because after said instance the antagonist will never see that group again, and if that group wanted to spread the word of that persons actions they couldn't because everyone is from a different server.

[viion]

My second point was based on the political science theory of the Collective Action Problem. If you are really interested in it look it up, it is a very interesting theory and much to deep for me to really lay out and explain on a forum post which id rather not do lol.

The basic premise of it though is unless there is coercion or some other special device to make individuals in a group act in their common interest, rational, self-interested individuals will not act to achieve their common or group interests. By implementing cross server ques for instanced dungeons you are decreasing accountability because after said instance the antagonist will never see that group again, and if that group wanted to spread the word of that persons actions they couldn't because everyone is from a different server.

Ah right, in some small senses, you could still spread word, and hope that when that character comes back to do the cross-world event again, he will be spotted and ignored? Minimal chance but very possible with their only being specific events he'd want to ninja from (and most likely limited instances).

Also to justify, even if you were able to tell people and spread the word, what good would it do? If you your friends, me my friends, and maybe some randomers all went to do an event and some big loot dropped, if it landed in my pool (because theres not lotting) and I just take it, you could say thats ninjaing, but it did land in my pool, the game gave it to me.

If we had discussed who got what first and it landed to me and I took it, then fair enough but then if you spread the word im a loot ninja who is going to remember after a month or 2? And why would I care people think this as I do not need to ever rely on them in the future? People ignoring me or not playing with me would affect my gameplay in no ways at all due to the style the game is taking.

I could play by myself or with some friends, be the biggest douche and still be able to do everything this game has to offer, so reputation is only as big as one ego's or pleasure. But in overall practice has no valuable aspect.

This is why I believe ninja looting is not a good enough excuse to dislike cross-server because the subject will not change regardless of weather cross-server is implemented or not.

[Bled]

Ah right, in some small senses, you could still spread word, and hope that when that character comes back to do the cross-world event again, he will be spotted and ignored? Minimal chance but very possible with their only being specific events he'd want to ninja from (and most likely limited instances).

Also to justify, even if you were able to tell people and spread the word, what good would it do? If you your friends, me my friends, and maybe some randomers all went to do an event and some big loot dropped, if it landed in my pool (because theres not lotting) and I just take it, you could say thats ninjaing, but it did land in my pool, the game gave it to me.

If we had discussed who got what first and it landed to me and I took it, then fair enough but then if you spread the word im a loot ninja who is going to remember after a month or 2? And why would I care people think this as I do not need to ever rely on them in the future? People ignoring me or not playing with me would affect my gameplay in no ways at all due to the style the game is taking.

I could play by myself or with some friends, be the biggest douche and still be able to do everything this game has to offer, so reputation is only as big as one ego's or pleasure. But in overall practice has no valuable aspect.

This is why I believe ninja looting is not a good enough excuse to dislike cross-server because the subject will not change regardless of weather cross-server is implemented or not.

You are treating ninja looting like it is the only outcome of a collective action problem in gaming, ninja looting is only one problem out of many. I agree with you if the Dev keep the same loot system in their new dungeon set up then yes it is less of an issue.

But just because you have cured one side effect does not mean you have cured the disease its self. Cross serve que is the disease.

WoW cross server group for instance:

1. Invited to group with random people.
2. lay down ground rules set up a plan; HOPEFULLY, majority of groups don't even do that.
3. you eventually start to get bored with the instance that you are running for the 151st time.
4. You finally make it to the end boss, you struggle, and rather then stick around and work things out, a person leaves in the middle of combat.

FFXI end content:

1. Invited to group of friends or most likely people who have played with before.
2. lay down ground rules set up a plan.
3. you eventually start to get bored with the content that you are running for the 151st time. However because you are all friends or acquaintances you enjoy each others company.
4. You finally make it to the end boss, you struggle, you choose to stick it out because you are held accountable in your group.

[Sorel]

WoW cross server group for instance:

1. Invited to group with random people.
2. lay down ground rules set up a plan; HOPEFULLY, majority of groups don't even do that.
3. you eventually start to get bored with the instance that you are running for the 151st time.
4. You finally make it to the end boss, you struggle, and rather then stick around and work things out, a person leaves in the middle of combat.

FFXI end content:

1. Invited to group of friends or most likely people who have played with before.
2. lay down ground rules set up a plan.
3. you eventually start to get bored with the content that you are running for the 151st time. However because you are all friends or acquaintances you enjoy each others company.
4. You finally make it to the end boss, you struggle, you choose to stick it out because you are held accountable in your group.

That #4 in both instances seem to hinge on both the concept of accountability (as you mentioned), but also I think a lack of respect for the other players in the group, as well as lack of professional courtesy.

In general, people (including MMO players) forge friendships with others because of respect for that person, and maybe also a small amount of admiration. In order to establish either of those, there must be a common history between the two.

Now in the absence of a common history, there are people who behave civilly with one another due to their personal sense of professionalism and common courtesy. That, given time, will allow for a common history between the two to begin generating, and mutual respect to start to build.

Cross-Server Grouping appears to inhibit the building of the "common history" by short-circuiting the process of social grouping. Yes, it is expedient and probably a more efficient method of grouping. But in order for the group to function properly, every member MUST have a high degree of professional courtesy. That is not statistically likely to occur if the process is random or "first come, first served".

So from my reasoning, the positive benefits of Cross-Server Grouping do not outweigh the negative effects of it.