Conjurer & White Mage Abilities and Spells Feedback

[Iwazaru]

Just wanted to add about the scholar "additional effect:"'s, those only apply when you use an aetherflow stack...aetherflow is an ability that gives MP and gives you a stack per use I believe..or gives you 2/3 depending on your level (or is the cap just raised? I don't remember), regardless though those effects won't be spammed much at all it's more of an emergency thing.

If anything the thing that will probably make sch 2x better than whm is the fact that their pets gcd's are seperate from their heals (I'm assuming since carby's are seperate as acn). Think about it, it's like being able to cast a cure 1 + 3 at the same time constantly while also being able to put HoT's on people + temp buffs.

The suggestions sound great, some of the abilities seem a bit loaded (damage abilities that heal teammates is a bit much) but whm definitely needs some fixing up.

[Skies]

As a WHM main in FFXI when cap was 75, what is the difference between CNJ and WHM @ lvl 50?

Hrm, despite the attribute modifications that the White Mage Soul gives, it's in particular a few abilities:
Presence of Mind, Regen, Divine Seal and Benediction.

Essentially White Mage can have a really incredible regen (150 potency, 21s duration, instant-cast and on GCD) and much more powerful heals and faster heals (Presence of Mind increases spell speed, Divine Seal increases healing potency, Benediction is instant-cast 300s cooldown ability that fully heals a target).
So they offer a LOT more burst healing

Edit: Also to those of you comparing Stoneskin to the Scholar's abilities
Pay further attention to the Scholar's abilities. Adloquium has 300 Potency and puts a barrier on the target with the same value healed, so it in essence gives 600 Potency worth of HP. Cure II has 650 Potency. Provided similar MP costs they are exactly equivalent in power since Potency is a multiplier to your healing/damage (100 potency is 100%)
Succor works in a similar way, 150 Potency of healing, equal value of barrier, that's 300 Potency of healing, whereas Medica (not Medica II or Cure III, you two other AoE heals) heals for 300 Potency. They are literally equivalent.

And look at Shroud of Saints, you can use it once per two minutes, that's two usages of Aetherflow. That means that you'd need to be able to regen at least 40% of your max MP per Shroud of Saints to match the recovery of Aetherflow alone (discarding Energy Drain). Notice how Shroud of Saints says 'Refresh Potency', once again i'm presuming that since it is a potency it's a multiplier of a value, the only value that would make sense is your healing value so. That's definitely more than just 80.

Overcure has it's reason to exist, with it you can essentially recover the entire party back to full with your Cure III, not just healing your single target but also get to fix the rest of the party. Freecure's big raison d'etre is to save you MP. It lets you use your biggest ST cure for free, and it lasts a whopping 15s and that means that you can wait another 13 to heal again. Fairly certain you WILL need that Cure II in those 13s, and it'll give your MP a moment to sit down and recover.

[Maldalewyn]

Lots of talk over aero, stone 1 and 2 but what about aero 2 and holy? I couldn't play around with them in P4 since I was locked in 3102 land. Also does holy's stun cause diminishing effects on other stuns? Wish I tested this stuff in P3 even if it changed but never crossed my mind.

Aero II is worthless. It's as slow to cast as Stone II, deals less damage, can not perform complete critcals, and costs more MP (it use to, this may no longer be true).

Holy does have diminishing effects, but the damage is very high, especially with Cleric Stance. However, the MP was so severe in phase 3 I could only cast it a few times before running out of MP. I don't see WHM ever actually using this in combat seriously unless its power is exploitable with multiple WHM.

I had a couple occasions where having raise cross classed was useful, but that was in PUGs. I would rather see it changed and have items like the company tonics or phoenix downs become the gap filler for emergency raise rather than the spell though.

This is what I think as well. items would be much better suited for other classes that can be exchanged for GC seals or even Gil.

Also, if you were doing this in Dungeons, trust me, it didn't save you anything. It's quicker for the CNJ to return to the entrance with no weakness and simply take the shortcut back to your party.

[M0xie]

A few notes after going over these posts:

I found that Freecure did disappear on the next Cure II cast, but I didn't test Cure I and/or don't remember.

I agree that Stoneskin is useful for a tank before a pull, particularly if you prefer to let them build up some hate or use Repose before that first heal.

My first/main concern is lack of regen/heal over time spells and that you don't get one until 35, and it looks pretty insignificant (I only made it to 34 so I didn't get to test it). I've always loved using HoT and I sorely miss having one. I know it doesn't take long to level to 35 but sooner would be nice.

I don't find CNJ too boring. I use assist hotkeys and can normally Aero and Stone a few times between heals and that keeps me busy enough. I do prefer to pop Medica if there are 2 or more needing a heal - I've never run out of mana healing. I started out in MMOs playing Enchanter and Cleric in EQ (first love) so I like that there are some spells that remind me of both.

[AlestrinVier]

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that. I hope that's not what you think.
I was arguing that it is a waste to let other classes/jobs access this spell when they can't even use it in combat. I think it would be more approperate to give the spell the innate ability to use midcombat and simply remove it from cross class while also replacing or enhancing the "Enhanced Raise" trait.

No, not at all I was just giving a context to the ability. I like the idea of people being able to raise freely in the field, but combat raise being limited.

Also, kudos to your input and insight here, it's been fantastic to read

[Maldalewyn]

I found that Freecure did disappear on the next Cure II cast, but I didn't test Cure I and/or don't remember.

This was an issue in phase 3 and I'm honestly not certain if the issue even still exists. It was basically free Cure Is for the remainder of the fight though as long as you kept refreshing it.
HUGE exploit.

I just think it's dumb that the traits don't effect the spells they actually provide the additional effect for, only the following one of a higher tier. Why not just have Freecure offer a small chance, like 10-15%, that every single cure spell may be cast without cost automatically. Why does it have to be the following spell?

My first/main concern is lack of regen/heal over time spells and that you don't get one until 35, and it looks pretty insignificant (I only made it to 34 so I didn't get to test it). I've always loved using HoT and I sorely miss having one. I know it doesn't take long to level to 35 but sooner would be nice.

Don't worry, Regen has been buffed to be quite an effective spell now. I was impressed with its potency increase.

Now I just need to get back in game to compare its MP cost with some of the Cures...

[Jeditkirk]

I would gladly give up any direct damage spells like stone and aero for something more traditional like haste or dia ^^

[Regdar]

Also, if you were doing this in Dungeons, trust me, it didn't save you anything. It's quicker for the CNJ to return to the entrance with no weakness and simply take the shortcut back to your party.

I was more interested in shutting them up honestly. They were on new chars and complained about durability a lot.

My first/main concern is lack of regen/heal over time spells and that you don't get one until 35, and it looks pretty insignificant (I only made it to 34 so I didn't get to test it). I've always loved using HoT and I sorely miss having one. I know it doesn't take long to level to 35 but sooner would be nice.

Regen got a nice big potency boost, but HoT is more SCH domain. They get weaker cures but instead can cast 2 at once (one from the player and another from the fairy). The fairy also has its own AoE regen skill not linked to GCD which should be great if it stacks with regen.

[Maldalewyn]

Pay further attention to the Scholar's abilities. Adloquium has 300 Potency and puts a barrier on the target with the same value healed, so it in essence gives 600 Potency worth of HP. Cure II has 650 Potency. Provided similar MP costs they are exactly equivalent in power since Potency is a multiplier to your healing/damage (100 potency is 100%)
Succor works in a similar way, 150 Potency of healing, equal value of barrier, that's 300 Potency of healing, whereas Medica (not Medica II or Cure III, you two other AoE heals) heals for 300 Potency. They are literally equivalent.

The major difference here is that SCH's cures take their value and double it exactly OVER the target's maximum HP. WHM can't do this.
Their healing styles are different, I'm not saying SCH's is better but it is definitely more interesting than WHM's which is just huge potency with no additional effects (aside for the overcure and freecure traits).

One thing is certain, their cure's additional effects are more cost efficient and more powerful than CNJ's Stoneskin.

[Skies]

The major difference here is that SCH's cures take their value and double it exactly OVER the target's maximum HP. WHM can't do this.
Their healing styles are different, I'm not saying SCH's is better but it is definitely more interesting than WHM's which is just huge potency with no additional effects (aside for the overcure and freecure traits).

One thing is certain, their cure's additional effects are more cost efficient and more powerful than CNJ's Stoneskin.

Just saying that it's not fair to compare the function of Stoneskin, which is a straight up wall, to that of Adloquium, which is a cure that can overheal a bit.
I'm not saying that I don't find Stoneskin underwhelming, it is. I'd like it to be changed in some way, but it cannot be compared in function to Adloquium at all.