Conjurer & White Mage Abilities and Spells Feedback

[Regdar]

I never saw this done so I'm not sure how that worked exactly. I quit shortly before the mini-expansions started coming out.

Basically, you kill 1/2 enemies in a fight and run away. After they kill you, reraise and heal to full. This tactic was also doable in 1.0 if you got raise on someone while wiping as it would clear their enmity.

[Maldalewyn]

My biggest problem with CNJ is the monotone button mashing when playing the healer role, which leads to very boring play. You just push Heal I from time to time and just stand there being pretty. It lacks "creative" play. I decided to mix things up, and ended up running all instances in Cleric stance.

The changes made the MP usage allow full use of Stone I, Areo I and Fluid Aura. I never ran out of MP, not even during the Boss fights. Never used Medica, used Heal I only. With the tank losing aggro, I could deal without any issue with the damage. Or used Fluid Aura.

I noticed this as well while I was synced to do the early dungeons.

The only way to keep myself occupied was to spam Stone I

As Zyzone stated, Aero use to be pretty much useless, but I neglected to do any serious testing between Stone I or Aero I through the final phase, so I'm not certain if tossing that spell out there occasionally will be helpful or not to my overall damage.

I'd be willing to bet on anything that Stone II is still going to be our only real damage spell though and manages to dwarf the other spells we have once we're in Early Access.

My suggestion would be more "creative" spells. Some buffs, debuffs, AoE spells. CNJ really needs more spells, or people will lose interest in playing them.

This.
This is the biggest problem CNJ face right now.


EDIT:

Basically, you kill 1/2 enemies in a fight and run away. After they kill you, reraise and heal to full. This tactic was also doable in 1.0 if you got raise on someone while wiping as it would clear their enmity.

Ooooh that! My LS did do this a couple times.

Yeah that was crap. I had forgotten about that. Still, I bet there is a way to fix Reraise so it couldn't be abused. Like maybe a fallen CNJ with Reraise on him can only get up if another living member of the party is able to help him up just by being present?

Anyway, if it's removed to avoid to possibility of using that tactic, I'll agree with its removal.

[Zyzone]

Aero being instant cast, can be cast on the move. Not great but makes it slightly less useless though.

Yeah it does have its uses, casting on the move and FATEs. The problem is that outside of that it's not worth casting. Since there aren't any MP regen spells at the low levels, I would rather save my MP on other moves.

My other issue with Aero is that it's more useful for ACN since it does around the same damage as Bio. Where as CNJ gets Ruin, which is completely useless unless there is elemental resistance in the game. The casting animation for Ruin is pretty cool though, and is the only reason I took the ability on my CNJ.

In term of DMG, I don't know much in ARR as CNJ is 50, but I believe you shouldn't put Thunder at all. THM only use Thunder because of trait and and while waiting for transpose cooldown.
Btw.. Aero kite dot CNJ can win any boss...



This was the reason why I stopped playing WHM in 1.23. FF11 used to have all fun remove status as each mob's family usually have 3-4 status attack move..

That's part of a general issue ARR has. A lot of useless cross class abilities. Hopefully they buff these abilities or give us better cross class skills.

I noticed this as well while I was synced to do the early dungeons.

The only way to keep myself occupied was to spam Stone I

As Zyzone stated, Aero use to be pretty much useless, but I neglected to do any serious testing between Stone I or Aero I through the final phase, so I'm not certain if tossing that spell out there occasionally will be helpful or not to my overall damage.

I'd be willing to bet on anything that Stone II is still going to be our only real damage spell though and manages to dwarf the other spells we have once we're in Early Access.

Considering Stone I crits dwarf Aero damage already, Stone II will ensure that Aero isn't used by CNJ.

What will be interesting to see is if Aero stays useful to ACN as they get higher level.

[AlestrinVier]

Regarding the whitemages ability to cast raise in combat. While at the early levels this will be mainly pointless, at later levels in raids and dungeons, especially on long winded bosses this will become incredibly potent. Does anyone remember the early Kirin fights in FF11?

And when you think about the whitemages lack of specific skill for recovering MP, the natural regeneration is much more powerful for whitemage as the casting costs of a lot of the healing spells are lower than the nukes thaum get.

[Maldalewyn]

Regarding the whitemages ability to cast raise in combat. While at the early levels this will be mainly pointless, at later levels in raids and dungeons, especially on long winded bosses this will become incredibly potent. Does anyone remember the early Kirin fights in FF11?

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that. I hope that's not what you think.
I was arguing that it is a waste to let other classes/jobs access this spell when they can't even use it in combat. I think it would be more approperate to give the spell the innate ability to use midcombat and simply remove it from cross class while also replacing or enhancing the "Enhanced Raise" trait.

[Syncness]

Hmm. I'm only a level 20 conjurer, but I used to be in high-end raiding in WoW, here's some of my thoughts.

1. Battle Raise without a long cooldown/lockout would simply be OP, every boss fight would be easy and it doesn't punish players for being bad.

2. Different ranks also has different mana costs, hence you need to choose spells accordingly.

3. Of course if you go crazy with spells you're going to go OOM, that's the entire point.

4. Yeah, the spells do lack creativity.

5. I doubt WHMs are expected to do DPS in fights, and even if they are, the DPS from Aero is minuscule, hence the mana cost is only relevant in a solo setting, in which case mana isn't an issue anyway.

[Skies]

1. Battle Raise without a long cooldown/lockout would simply be OP, every boss fight would be easy and it doesn't punish players for being bad.

This in particular is avoided through Weakness. Weakness cuts your HP/MP by 25% and if you die again while in Weakness you enter Brink of Death, which cuts it by 50%.
It wouldn't be uncommon a couple of deaths leading to a greatly weakened party which soon spirals into many rapid deaths and a wipe

[Regdar]

Lots of talk over aero, stone 1 and 2 but what about aero 2 and holy? I couldn't play around with them in P4 since I was locked in 3102 land. Also does holy's stun cause diminishing effects on other stuns? Wish I tested this stuff in P3 even if it changed but never crossed my mind.

I had a couple occasions where having raise cross classed was useful, but that was in PUGs. I would rather see it changed and have items like the company tonics or phoenix downs become the gap filler for emergency raise rather than the spell though.

EDIT:

As a WHM main in FFXI when cap was 75, what is the difference between CNJ and WHM @ lvl 50?

WHM gets some bonuses over CNJ. You gain Holy, Regen, Benediction, Divine Seal and Presence of Mind. WHM only gear like AF and Relics and some stat changes. The downside to these bonuses are you lose out on cross-class abilities from other jobs and can only pick from 2. For instance you can equip PGL's Mantra as a CNJ (gives 20% bonus healing on targets in a self AOE) but you cannot use that skill as a WHM.

[Greenman]

As a WHM main in FFXI when cap was 75, what is the difference between CNJ and WHM @ lvl 50?

[Maldalewyn]

1. Battle Raise without a long cooldown/lockout would simply be OP, every boss fight would be easy and it doesn't punish players for being bad.

Raise is our most expensive spell. Early on, this is without reason since we can only use it outside of combat anyway. Once we get the trait and can use it mid-combat, having to actually use it in the middle of battle will cost you an enormous amount of MP. However, arguments for or against a CNJ and WHMs MP management are hard to discuss at the moment because we honestly can't talk about it informatively since the MP costs change constantly as you level and I don't think any of us have a completed table of the cost of each spell on us at the moment.

In order for Battle raise to work, I think it sound suffer penalties like you seem to suggest. Not just in its cost in MP but also in an extended recast time. Right now it operates on the GCD which is just stupid.

2. Different ranks also has different mana costs, hence you need to choose spells accordingly.

Again, the MP costs are hard to discuss but, in phase 3 most damage spells after you received Stone II became obsolete.

There was no place for Aero unless you needed an instant spell to tag monsters or something while you were running. That was its ONLY purpose.
Aero II dealt more damage than Aero, but had a 2.5 cast time equal to Stone II. It also lasts a whole 4 seconds less than Aero I and only deals marginally more damage in the end. Its damage in comparison to Stone II was a joke yet it also cost more MP (this may no longer be true, I know they reduced Aero I's MP cost at least).
Stone I cost less MP than Stone II obviously, but its damage was not more effective in the end. Stone II dealt more damage for less MP in the end if you added it all up in the end.

Stone II outclassed every single damage spell CNJ had access too.

5. I doubt WHMs are expected to do DPS in fights, and even if they are, the DPS from Aero is minuscule, hence the mana cost is only relevant in a solo setting, in which case mana isn't an issue anyway.

In fights, normal fights, if you aren't dealing damage, you'll be so bored out of your mind you'll be virtually nothing.

In serious fights, if you cast nothing but cures, you may very well be able to keep your MP capped, we currently have no idea, this is all just theory. We'll have to wait and see.