Yoshi-p says: "Button pressing is stressful." ....

[LlenCoram]

Rods and baits will not be as simple as you make it sound. In 1.0 it was simple because your rod and bait didn't matter as much as it should have. With the addition of rods, weather conditions, water types, bait fish and lures... and don't forget, gathering now has GP based actions. Have you played Gatheirng at all in ARR? Then you should know that you have to decide which abilities you need to use to get the type of fish you want is also dependent on the stats of your gear and the amount of GP you need to spend. Tree Whisperer made using gathering food relevant, unlike in 1.0 where gathering food was a pretty much a waste and all benefits were hypothetical after level 38.

Fishing will go from mindless clicking and 0 effort to something with actual depth.

It's clear you and I disagree entirely, but this requires looking at. Yoshi has said there will be zero actions to perform. As in none. Tree whisperer and whatever else botany gets, and whatever interesting skills miner will get, will not be on fisher. We won't have GP because we won't have skills to use while fishing. That being the case, the only control we'll have will be our rod and bait, but Yoshi has also said in the past that it will be a class that anyone can just do whenever they want. That implies stats won't mean much. Whether stats could mean something is another matter entirely, but for now all we know is that we could probably fish completely naked with a level 1 rod and bait and still do as well as the fully-kitted out fisher next to him/her.

I'll admit that the more recent change to botany has made it slightly more appealing. Before, being led by the nose by the RNG was irritating and insulting, and people heralded it without seeing that they were doing the same thing as in 1.0. With the change now that you don't need chains, that part of my complaints is gone and I can see real strategy growing from it. I can only hope that Yoshi listens to us fishers as well.

Though knowing this community it will be nothing but hundreds of people going on about how amazing the new fishing is, some of them just to spite those of us who are complaining. Those same people will stop fishing as much a few months into the game's life, leaving those of us who actually want to fish with this strange, no-interaction system.

See that's not enough for me, because it's highly unlikely that anyone who has spend half an hour fishing will have a problem hitting the button at the right time. And once you've levelled to 50, you could literally do that while watching TV.

It's why I suggested a randomised response request after a randomised amount of time with a strict time limit for the response. Sure, if you've played for 50 levels, your reactions should be somewhat honed, but the response you have to give is unable to be predicted and your brain has to do that little bit of extra work to recognise the required command and tell your fingers to move to the correct place - each and every pull is different (er, unless it's randomly the same). It's more like a brain-training exercise and yes, is "more stressful".

Just saying that, imo, pressing enter each time the fish bites is akin to not pressing anything at all, from the perspective of brain action. Either it should go one way, with no action or go the other way, with an actual minigame, but as it was is less fun that both (imo imo imo)

You're right, but it was the best thing I could think of off the top of my head while still being small and meaningless. Though I suppose having to do anything is stressful.

I'm so glad I won't have to keep my hands on the keyboard! Too much stress! I really hope Yoshi changes it so my characters just does everything for me. Being a Monk in fights? WAY too much stress.

[HiirNoivl]

Come on Hiir, you're not even trying now.

Fishing was not fun in 1.0 yet I still did it because it did have a value apart from achievements. I could use it to level other crafts and I could use it to help others achieve their goals. Others who did not want to level fishing, yes, just like I didn't want to level mining or botany. I helped them, they helped me, it was great.

And I could indeed also use it for a steady income of gil. Just like with all other classes - crafting, gathering and combat - I didn't make tons of money all the time. From level 1-30 or so, I used most of the fish for cooking, so I can't say much about that level range. But once I was too good a chef to be content with making sea sand and a good enough fisherman to catch all the tasty stuff at Cedarwood and such, the gil income was pretty good. It changed from "pretty good" to "OMGIMRICH" when they introduced materia catalysts and dye, which both couldn't be botted that easily.

With that out of the way, let's see what's next... Ah, yes!
No, I do not have "the idea that fishing in 1.0 was some sort of standard of good game play". In fact, I clearly stated that it was not. I also clearly stated that there are good ways to improve it (see the posts above for just a few examples), but a system that's basically "Click here for an achievement!" is not one of them.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're getting at with those botany/mining achievements. Of course there will be achievements for those classes, why wouldn't there be? Or do you mean we should be happy that fishing is probably getting more of them? Because... I think that's completely beside the point people are trying to make here. But maybe I'm just missing your point.

Botany you do have to think about what you're doing when it comes to whether or not you want HQ, or you want to go for Quantity over HQ... but that's as far as it goes.

But fishing gets a better system. You get HQ and you get NQ, but you have a world full of other content that involves achievements for size, collection, yes, treasure maps, though you sniff at that. I don't understand why. BTN and MIN is very plain in comparison and yet that's what you say you want. Fishing is going fathoms deeper in gameplay than BTN and MIN and yet you're unhappy because you don't understand how going to fish in the clouds is fun without a timed action-based minigame. You don't see how achievements could be valuable even as you have that luminary rod hanging on your back.

There will be no little minigame like in 1.0 where you have to move with timed reactions or whatever. That's not happening. But you guys are acting like that's the end of the class.

There will be a market for fish, but there won't be crafts that hang completely on Fishing, like ALC and CUL did, even though the only reasons people used fishing was to level those classes so they can make something else. Even say, fishing was great... for things besides fishing.

How about making fishing good for fishing?

[LlenCoram]

Botany you do have to think about what you're doing when it comes to whether or not you want HQ, or you want to go for Quantity over HQ... but that's as far as it goes.

But fishing gets a better system. You get HQ and you get NQ, but you have a world full of other content that involves achievements for size, collection, yes, treasure maps, though you sniff at that. I don't understand why. BTN and MIN is very plain in comparison and yet that's what you say you want. Fishing is going fathoms deeper in gameplay than BTN and MIN and yet you're unhappy because you don't understand how going to fish in the clouds is fun without a timed action-based minigame. You don't see how achievements could be valuable even as you have that luminary rod hanging on your back.

There will be no little minigame like in 1.0 where you have to move with timed reactions or whatever. That's not happening. But you guys are acting like that's the end of the class.

There will be a market for fish, but there won't be crafts that hang completely on Fishing, like ALC and CUL did, even though the only reasons people used fishing was to level those classes so they can make something else. Even say, fishing was great... for things besides fishing.

How about making fishing good for fishing?

This is still beside the point though. Yes, all this stuff sounds great, but the mechanics sound boring.

That's the giant sticking point. The entire class sounds like it's going to be a click and wait system. It sounds boring. Frankly, not having some sort of player interaction does make it the end of the class, in my eyes. If there's no actual player interaction, why ever bother playing it? You pay $9.99 a month so that you can watch your character do stuff for you? Someone earlier said that they were glad they wouldn't have to do anything because then they could watch movies. Does that actually make sense to you? Is it normal to want to watch a movie or play a different game while we're already playing a game? Just log off at that point. If a part of the game is so difficult for you to do, then don't bloody do it. If we're not doing anything, it's not a class, and that in turn makes the game not a game. It's a choose-your-own-adventure cutscene.

At this point, it's pretty clear no one has any idea what they're doing with the fishing, and though I'm all doom and gloom, I'm still going to check it out in phase 4. I will not, however, get my hopes up because of some strange promise of fishing in the clouds. If the computer is doing all the work, what do I care?

[HiirNoivl]

I'm saddened that a little bouncing ball going back and forth counts as interaction nowadays.

Yoshi is correct when he says that fishing will be communing with nature. Not only will you have to be familiar with the map and the fish varieties and the "depth" where it could be caught (though, in 1.0 that was only just slightly less RNG, whichwasstilljustRNG), you have to know what fish shows up at what area, with which bait, and what rod you need and what weather you need. And who knows the variables of size. We don't know that yet.

I see that as interesting not boring. I'm not sure why you're insisting that the bouncing ball is essential to the class. Or that the bouncing ball means interaction. The jig game taught you nothing about Eorzea, there was no lore about the fish other than tool tips. Did you know the names of the bodies of water? No, you knew that they were salt or fresh, but maybe "Velodyna carp" one day could only be caught in "Velodyna river" instead of a random pool in the Ifrit node cave and maybe you could catch an Ifrit fish in the Ifrit cave...

I don't know I'm just thinking of how awesome this new fishing class could be instead of using my imagination to think about how terrible it's going to be.

[Solace]

I love how you interpreted so much about how terrible fishing is going to be, and yet you don't know the mechanics (other than weather rod and tackle affect fish), and you have never seen footage.

What could you possibly conclude based on one sentence other than the number of button presses is reduced?

Look at p3 and tell me that they dont care about feedback for stuff in game.

Then wait for it to be ingame, so that proper feedback can be made, rather than inept feedforward.

That is exactly what I meant when I said "Speculation is pointless".
Because the speculation was based on absolutely nothing...
If you are going to speculate, at least have some kind of solid ground to stand on, from which to base your opinions.

At least base the speculation off some kind of facts.

[LlenCoram]

I'm saddened that a little bouncing ball going back and forth counts as interaction nowadays.

Yoshi is correct when he says that fishing will be communing with nature. Not only will you have to be familiar with the map and the fish varieties and the "depth" where it could be caught (though, in 1.0 that was only just slightly less RNG, whichwasstilljustRNG), you have to know what fish shows up at what area, with which bait, and what rod you need and what weather you need. And who knows the variables of size. We don't know that yet.

I see that as interesting not boring. I'm not sure why you're insisting that the bouncing ball is essential to the class. Or that the bouncing ball means interaction. The jig game taught you nothing about Eorzea, there was no lore about the fish other than tool tips. Did you know the names of the bodies of water? No, you knew that they were salt or fresh, but maybe "Velodyna carp" one day could only be caught in "Velodyna river" instead of a random pool in the Ifrit node cave and maybe you could catch an Ifrit fish in the Ifrit cave...

I don't know I'm just thinking of how awesome this new fishing class could be instead of using my imagination to think about how terrible it's going to be.

The "bouncing ball" as you put it isn't essential to the class, nor is it a perfect example of interactivity. However even you can't argue that by the very fact that the jig meter required us to input a command to make it work, thereby giving us a fish, the "bouncing ball" was in fact interactive.

Let me make this clear. I don't necessarily want 1.0's fishing back. What I want is a system where I'm engaged as a player of a video game. I love me some lore, and I did in fact try to learn all the bodies of water because I love me some fluff. What I do want from the new system is something that's at least as good as 1.0's, which really isn't that difficult to do.

You keep going on about knowing the map and the fish and the rod and the bait and whatever, but that's still not actually part of the fishing mechanic. Yes, maybe it'll be really fun figuring out where you have to go to catch whatever fish, but what the rest of us are talking about is the actual act of fishing. Pretend for a moment that you've studied your map. You know what fish you want, what bait and rod to use, and you've arrived at the area. There. All the fun stuff is done. Now you get to sit in your computer chair and stare at your character do all the work for you. Then once that, the actual fishing act, is done, THEN you can look at what fish you caught and compare it to others. Maybe the GCs will let us trade in big fish for epeen points.

We can have meaningful lore and fun, interactive mechanics at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

[Kirito]

guys don't worry so much! The alchemist class has already been confirmed to require fish. And there is no way to buy hq fish so it shouldn't be a problem!

[HiirNoivl]

THEN you can look at what fish you caught and compare it to others. Maybe the GCs will let us trade in big fish for epeen points

:O GC... I didn't even think abou that one.

All the fun stuff is done. Now you get to sit in your computer chair and stare at your character do all the work for you.

So... you don't think there are going to be any actions involve in fishing at all...

Okay um.

I suggest you do some research because, I know that there will be skills for clouds, and uh... sand... and uh *Achoo*swimming*achoo* actions connected with fishing.

Um... Yeah there are different kinds of casts uh...

[LlenCoram]

:O GC... I didn't even think abou that one.



So... you don't think there are going to be any actions involve in fishing at all...

Okay um.

I suggest you do some research because, I know that there will be skills for clouds, and uh... sand... and uh *Achoo*swimming*achoo* actions connected with fishing.

Um... Yeah there are different kinds of casts uh...

I have "done my research" and I have seen... what you mentioned. I see nothing about swimming, and the rest of the skills are things you do outside of fishing. There's nothing like tree whisperer or any of the old skills, like Truth of Seas or Veteran. All the old stuff that would pop at random while actually fishing, I was hoping I'd have some control over them in ARR.

[HiirNoivl]

Okie dokie Artichokie. I was just making sure.