So 1.0 owners have to start paying the monthly fee immediately?

[Abriael]

comments are for you Abriael.

If you play a game that requires you pay a fee and you happen to play it for free in a good working condition because the company wants to let you try it out then its called a trial. Hence YOU will have at least three weeks to play this game with out paying. NOW looking at the amount of posts you have and you you chars. IT seems that you have played for a while to have two lv 50 class. Are you legacy ? If so you have 1 month to play for free. Are you not happy with that. Just answer yes or no. and if you like you can tell me why.

Maybe you should try reading the thread before responding. Despite what Skye claims (because she can't counter my argument, so she has to shift it on the personal level to attack me instead of my argument) this has nothing to do with me.

I already preordered the game, so I'll get my nice 30 days, plus early access, and have been in beta since phase 1. I seriously doubt whatever SE will give as part of any campaign to entice people to return will add up to that. What *I*, me or anyone else on this forum gets is of no importance, because for Square Enix we're already in the bag.

We're also a vastly outnumbered minority compared to the 800k people minus crumbs that got 1.0 and that Square Enix is trying to get back to play A Realm Reborn.

To entice those people, the more Square Enix give, the better. The stronger the offer will be, the more will try the game and possibly resubscribe. It's a simple and iron clad equation.

The more people come back, the better it'll be for us, because besides a few trolls, everyone here want this game to be successful and to have a big community, generate a nice revenue, and be supported for several years to come.

This is the point, not what I, you, or anyone else here gets.

People will bite after two weeks (hell, they'll bite after one week), or they won't bite at all. For every week after the first two, you're tossing revenue away.

The problem is making people bite at all. To make people bite, you have to entice them to actually *try* the game.

You're assuming that everyone that is offered this package will take it. That's a rather gross assumption.

Two weeks will entice a certain percentage of those that left to take the offer and try the game *at all*. Four weeks would simply entice a higher percentage, getting a higher overall turnaround.

It's not rocket science.

[wdrekx]

I backed my claims with simple and undeniable logic:

The more is offered, the more the offer is effective, and as far as I know, it's everyone's (including SE's) best interest for the offer to be as effective as possible.

Of course you completely ignored the point, because you have no way to counter it.

On the other hand you "backed" your retorts with nothing else than personal attacks and mocking, as usual. Doesn't really work like that. But hey, keep claiming that 1 is bigger than 2 because you say so.

When you'll have something actually logical to say lemme know. I'm waiting.

Actually your undeniable point only works in an ideal world where money is no concern. If SE was focusing only on making the offer effective for players then never charging for FFXIV would be most effective. The line has to be drawn about how much benefit you can afford to give players because in the end SE/FFXIV has to be profitable. The one thing that is almost a given with any MMO is that short of being WoW you will see a good sized dip between the first couple of months. They might be trying to make as much money as they can back during the first few months as that is when the bulk of the money comes from (frontload).

BTW while some people actually alpha/beta properly that is not the case for majority. I don't know about you but unless you're submitting x amount of bugs or providing x amount of constructive criticism about specific things and how to improve it during x phase then you're most likely not that helpful to beta. How most people go about beta is, they go and play the game and if they find a bug they find a bug. Even when players find a bug they don't go trying to make sure that it is reproducible or all the exact details on the things that lead to the bug. This is the reason why most betas tend to include a much bigger crowd because you know only a small percentage will actually do what you need them to do and the others are there for a free ride.

[Vilhem]

lol I'm going to the store to pick up some things. You keep on keeping on, Abby. Fight the good fight (or whatever). And don't forget, I'd love to see those sources. Because I just know you're not pulling facts out of your rear end. lol

Bring me back something delicious pls '-'

[Abriael]

Actually your undeniable point only works in an ideal world where money is no concern. If SE was focusing only on making the offer effective for players then never charging for FFXIV would be most effective. The line has to be drawn about how much benefit you can afford to give players because in the end SE/FFXIV has to be profitable. The one thing that is almost a given with any MMO is that short of being WoW you will see a good sized dip between the first couple of months. They might be trying to make as much money as they can back during the first few months as that is when the bulk of the money comes from (frontload).

For a company the size/scope of Square Enix the difference between starting to make a revenue (on returning players only, as new players will provide a revenue immediately with box sales) on September the 12th and on September the 26th is negligible.

On the other end, for a jaded ex-customer on the fence about the game, the difference between having to pay on the 12th or on the 26th is much larger, and could easily draw the line between giving the game a try with a chance of resub, and not bothering at all.

I'd say getting a revenue 14 days later, but having a higher subscription turnaround is a wiser course of action leading for a higher overall revenue.

On top of that, the first couple weeks are normally the most problematic for new MMORPGs, with server issues, bugs and whatnot. While we can only hope that the game will launch solid, we can't exclude initial problems that happen pretty much for every MMO. Some get less. Some get more, but a certain amount of problems and issues is always there. It's endemic of the genre.

One of the main reasons why when you buy a MMO you're given 30 days of playtime is because that gives the developer enough time to address the initial issues and show those that got the game that they can provide a stable experience, which is why most MMOs get the first major patch with all the most important fixes 2-3 weeks in, or even just a few days before the end of the first month.

By giving people one month, you ensure that they'll have some time to play past the gestation period in which most problems are focused, increasing the chances that they'll resub.

By giving them two weeks, they may get very little time past that, or none at all, and if they don't see the initial problems fixed, many simply won't resub.

[Mjollnir]

The problem is making people bite at all. To make people bite, you have to entice them to actually *try* the game.

You're assuming that everyone that is offered this package will take it. That's a rather gross assumption.

Two weeks will entice a certain percentage of those that left to take the offer and try the game *at all*. Four weeks would simply entice a higher percentage, getting a higher overall turnaround.

It's not rocket science.

Nope, I think you're wrong on this one. I did AoC Beta/Early/Month 1 and quit because it wasn't for me. A year, or however long, later Funcom sent me an e-mail telling me the game was completely redesigned and I had a free week to log in with my old character and trial it. I had some free time that week, so I downloaded and played it for two days. I didn't need longer than that. If it had said four weeks, it would have made no difference. This is a pretty similar situation here.

But we're at that stage in the debate where you'll never back down now aren't we?

[Abriael]

Nope, I think you're wrong on this one. I did AoC Beta/Early/Month 1 and quit because it wasn't for me. A year, or however long, later Funcom sent me an e-mail telling me the game was completely redesigned and I had a free week to log in with my old character and trial it. I had some free time that week, so I downloaded and played it for two days. I didn't need longer than that. If it had said four weeks, it would have made no difference.

I'm sure. But that's you. People have a rather wide variety of reasons and motives, especially when they are on the fence, and there's plenty fence sitters between those that quit 1.0.

Offer someone a game with 30% discount, and a certain percentage of the people on the fence about it will buy. Offer 60% discount, and a higher percentage will. Steam lives and thrives on that.

You were also trying a solidified game with a year of development on its back. ARR will be a new game that will almost inevitably take a bit to get all the kinks working perfectly, like pretty much every MMORPG at launch (unless we get a miracle, but I don't normally count on miracles). Giving people longer ensures that that those that will try the game will have time to play when most of the kinks will have been smoothed, instead of having the clock run out before.

A lot of people don't resub if their initial free time runs out before the biggest issues are solved, and giving people a month simply allows SE more breathing room there. Two weeks are a very narrow margin for the first major fixpatch after a new game's launch.

But we're at that stage in the debate where you'll never back down now aren't we?

I see no reason to. Petty personal attacks don't scare me, and I still have to see a compelling argument demonstrating that a stronger offer isn't better than a weaker one.

[Alhanelem]

Beta = Not a free trial. Beta = Beta.

You know, you really need to stop posting this.
The fact is this: like 99% of people treat betas as trials/game demos. Very few people actually join a beta with the intent on testing things and reporting bugs and feedback. Nobody is disputing the LITERAL DEFINITION of the terms, but what is effectively the case is a lot more important than the literal meanings.

Yoshida himself even referred to the final phase of the beta as more like other game's betas, which are more like (read: not identical to) a free trial than a bona-fide test.

The vast majority of all people who join any game beta are specifically doing so to try out the game before they would have to pay for it.

The more is offered, the more the offer is effective, and as far as I know, it's everyone's (including SE's) best interest for the offer to be as effective as possible.

This isn't undeniable logic. You CAN offer too much, such that your offer reeks of desparation rather than a real marketing effort or actual generosity. And as has been posted before, you can offer any amount of something someone doesn't want and it won't matter.

Hi! Do you like cheese?

Yes!

Would you like some free cheese?

Yes!

This is Stilton cheese! Here have {two kilos} of it.

*takes a couple of bites* Ew, I don't like this. Keep your stinking Stilton, I'm off to gorge myself on Cheddar.

---

Switch the {two kilos} for {four kilos}. Results stay the same.

People will bite after two weeks (hell, they'll bite after one week), or they won't bite at all. For every week after the first two, you're tossing revenue away.

This.

Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Fully so. Even the story is a full fledged sequel of the story in FFXIV. A Realm Reborn fits the definition of "sequel" to a T.

It's not a sequel. It's a re-launch. A re-imagining. An update. It would be called FFXIV-II if they considered it a sequel. It is VERSION 2, not "2nd title in the series." They created the evolving story arc in order to make a sensical transition from the impending server shutdown to the later re-launch. and that's what it is. a re-launch. not a sequel. I don't care how much you think it "fits" the definition. that doesn't make it a sequel. All A's may be B's but not all B's have to be A's.

[ZakarnRosewood]

Why not just go free to play then?

[SkyeWindbinder]

Why not just go free to play then?

I'm sure that would make Abriael's day. lol

[ZakarnRosewood]

I'm sure that would make Abriael's day. lol

Well from the stand point of providing the most equal opportunity for people to try out the game this would be the most logical way to go.

Fact is, like any promotional offer, its just that. A promotion. Its there, the company does the best they can about promoting it, then the rest is up to the people to take advantage of it. Simple as that. Like fast food restaurant coupons. They have a limited offer. It does not work for everyone.

I do enjoy the mental gymnastics Abriael is going though. While he is making sense on one hand I think that he is trying to accomplish is becoming lost in complexity. People dont need or want crazy conditions or convoluted programs. I think what they are offering so far is sufficient.

You pre-order - get a free 8 days before release
you buy a new copy of the game - you get a free 30 days
you are a 1.0 account holder - you get email notification of an invite for a "welcome back" campaign.

That covers people getting it ahead of time, people coming in brand new, and the first crowd that may have been turned off. For a launch of a game. This is enough. Later on they might look at "14 day free trials" or "free to level 20" for people to play a "demo" of the game. (which i think is what he's getting at.) There is also the open beta where people have an opportunity to try it out.

I think this is sufficient.