So 1.0 owners have to start paying the monthly fee immediately?

[Abriael]

Wouldn't matter.

He'd simply make his claims, throw in a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense, and when his opponents ask for sources to his claims he'd simply say "I'm right. I don't have sources, but I'm obviously right. You don't agree, I lol at you."

I don't see you bringing any "sources" to back what you say. Not that any are needed here, obviously no one went around to poll all the 800,000 players that bought final fantasy xiv to know how they feel about two weeks against four. All we have is logic, and logic dictates that more is better than less.

But you're very fast to demand "sources" when all you have is banter, taunts and personal attacks.

You're always so keen on turning a discussion into personal mudslinging and trolling when you're left without arguments...

You do know that it is possible to satisfy your ONE MONTH need to play this game but combining open beta and the welcome back weeks plus if you're C:E or Legacy you get another week so let's see.
LEgacy = 1 week *
Open beta= 1 week*
Welcome back bro= 2 weeks
total 4 weeks = 1 month

Beta = Not a free trial. Beta = Beta.
Legacy = doesn't apply to most people that quit the game and might be returning with ARR, which are the ones I'm talking about and need convincing.

I keep being baffled at those that try their hardest to encourage Square Enix to give as little as possible. Final Fantasy XIV truly generated a new form of masochism.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Blah blah blah still no sources or proof to back up my claims blah blah

Yeah yeah, we've heard this song, Abriael. Keep singing. lol

While you're at it, maybe you can whistle a tune that provides proof that not having a month of a free trial will hurt SE in the long run?

No, of course you can't. And when someone points out the holes in your arguments, you cry about "being attacked". Stop whining. Either back up your claims, or deal with no one taking you seriously. (sits back) I'm waiting... lol

[Abriael]

Yeah yeah, we've heard this song, Abriael. Keep singing. lol

While you're at it, maybe you can whistle a tune that provides proof that not having a month of a free trial will hurt SE in the long run?

No, of course you can't. And when someone points out the holes in your arguments, you cry about "being attacked". Stop whining. Either back up your claims, or deal with no one taking you seriously. (sits back) I'm waiting... lol

I backed my claims with simple and undeniable logic:

The more is offered, the more the offer is effective, and as far as I know, it's everyone's (including SE's) best interest for the offer to be as effective as possible.

Of course you completely ignored the point, because you have no way to counter it.

On the other hand you "backed" your retorts with nothing else than personal attacks and mocking, as usual. Doesn't really work like that. But hey, keep claiming that 1 is bigger than 2 because you say so.

When you'll have something actually logical to say lemme know. I'm waiting.

[Duuude007]

I backed my claims with simple and undeniable logic

When you can cite your examples for "industry standard" and "beta can never be considered a trial", get back to us.

Simple logic according to what source?

'Til then, you've proven jack squat.

[SkyeWindbinder]

blah blah more hyperbolic nonsense blah blah

So.... no sources then? No proof to back up your claims that not having an extra two months of free play time for 1.0 owners will damage SE as far as this game goes? Not even any other games you can reference who have been damaged by such a thing? Just you claiming you're right because you're right, and calling you out on it is "personally attacking you"? Nothing to back up your claims? Nothing at all?

(wink) Gotcha. lol

[Mjollnir]

I backed my claims with simple and undeniable logic:

The more is offered, the more the offer is effective, and as far as I know, it's everyone's (including SE's) best interest for the offer to be as effective as possible.

Hi! Do you like cheese?

Yes!

Would you like some free cheese?

Yes!

This is Stilton cheese! Here have {two kilos} of it.

*takes a couple of bites* Ew, I don't like this. Keep your stinking Stilton, I'm off to gorge myself on Cheddar.

---

Switch the {two kilos} for {four kilos}. Results stay the same.

People will bite after two weeks (hell, they'll bite after one week), or they won't bite at all. For every week after the first two, you're tossing revenue away.

[wdrekx]

I backed my claims with simple and undeniable logic:

The more is offered, the more the offer is effective, and as far as I know, it's everyone's (including SE's) best interest for the offer to be as effective as possible.

Of course you completely ignored the point, because you have no way to counter it.

On the other hand you "backed" your retorts with nothing else than personal attacks and mocking, as usual. Doesn't really work like that. But hey, keep claiming that 1 is bigger than 2 because you say so.

When you'll have something actually logical to say lemme know. I'm waiting.

Actually your undeniable point only works in an ideal world where money is no concern. If SE was focusing only on making the offer effective for players then never charging for FFXIV would be most effective. The line has to be drawn about how much benefit you can afford to give players because in the end SE/FFXIV has to be profitable. The one thing that is almost a given with any MMO is that short of being WoW you will see a good sized dip between the first couple of months. They might be trying to make as much money as they can back during the first few months as that is when the bulk of the money comes from (frontload).

BTW while some people actually alpha/beta properly that is not the case for majority. I don't know about you but unless you're submitting x amount of bugs or providing x amount of constructive criticism about specific things and how to improve it during x phase then you're most likely not that helpful to beta. How most people go about beta is, they go and play the game and if they find a bug they find a bug. Even when players find a bug they don't go trying to make sure that it is reproducible or all the exact details on the things that lead to the bug. This is the reason why most betas tend to include a much bigger crowd because you know only a small percentage will actually do what you need them to do and the others are there for a free ride.

[Abriael]

Actually your undeniable point only works in an ideal world where money is no concern. If SE was focusing only on making the offer effective for players then never charging for FFXIV would be most effective. The line has to be drawn about how much benefit you can afford to give players because in the end SE/FFXIV has to be profitable. The one thing that is almost a given with any MMO is that short of being WoW you will see a good sized dip between the first couple of months. They might be trying to make as much money as they can back during the first few months as that is when the bulk of the money comes from (frontload).

For a company the size/scope of Square Enix the difference between starting to make a revenue (on returning players only, as new players will provide a revenue immediately with box sales) on September the 12th and on September the 26th is negligible.

On the other end, for a jaded ex-customer on the fence about the game, the difference between having to pay on the 12th or on the 26th is much larger, and could easily draw the line between giving the game a try with a chance of resub, and not bothering at all.

I'd say getting a revenue 14 days later, but having a higher subscription turnaround is a wiser course of action leading for a higher overall revenue.

On top of that, the first couple weeks are normally the most problematic for new MMORPGs, with server issues, bugs and whatnot. While we can only hope that the game will launch solid, we can't exclude initial problems that happen pretty much for every MMO. Some get less. Some get more, but a certain amount of problems and issues is always there. It's endemic of the genre.

One of the main reasons why when you buy a MMO you're given 30 days of playtime is because that gives the developer enough time to address the initial issues and show those that got the game that they can provide a stable experience, which is why most MMOs get the first major patch with all the most important fixes 2-3 weeks in, or even just a few days before the end of the first month.

By giving people one month, you ensure that they'll have some time to play past the gestation period in which most problems are focused, increasing the chances that they'll resub.

By giving them two weeks, they may get very little time past that, or none at all, and if they don't see the initial problems fixed, many simply won't resub.

[StrikeField]

comments are for you Abriael.

If you play a game that requires you pay a fee and you happen to play it for free in a good working condition because the company wants to let you try it out then its called a trial. Hence YOU will have at least three weeks to play this game with out paying. NOW looking at the amount of posts you have and you you chars. IT seems that you have played for a while to have two lv 50 class. Are you legacy ? If so you have 1 month to play for free. Are you not happy with that. Just answer yes or no. and if you like you can tell me why.

[Abriael]

comments are for you Abriael.

If you play a game that requires you pay a fee and you happen to play it for free in a good working condition because the company wants to let you try it out then its called a trial. Hence YOU will have at least three weeks to play this game with out paying. NOW looking at the amount of posts you have and you you chars. IT seems that you have played for a while to have two lv 50 class. Are you legacy ? If so you have 1 month to play for free. Are you not happy with that. Just answer yes or no. and if you like you can tell me why.

Maybe you should try reading the thread before responding. Despite what Skye claims (because she can't counter my argument, so she has to shift it on the personal level to attack me instead of my argument) this has nothing to do with me.

I already preordered the game, so I'll get my nice 30 days, plus early access, and have been in beta since phase 1. I seriously doubt whatever SE will give as part of any campaign to entice people to return will add up to that. What *I*, me or anyone else on this forum gets is of no importance, because for Square Enix we're already in the bag.

We're also a vastly outnumbered minority compared to the 800k people minus crumbs that got 1.0 and that Square Enix is trying to get back to play A Realm Reborn.

To entice those people, the more Square Enix give, the better. The stronger the offer will be, the more will try the game and possibly resubscribe. It's a simple and iron clad equation.

The more people come back, the better it'll be for us, because besides a few trolls, everyone here want this game to be successful and to have a big community, generate a nice revenue, and be supported for several years to come.

This is the point, not what I, you, or anyone else here gets.

People will bite after two weeks (hell, they'll bite after one week), or they won't bite at all. For every week after the first two, you're tossing revenue away.

The problem is making people bite at all. To make people bite, you have to entice them to actually *try* the game.

You're assuming that everyone that is offered this package will take it. That's a rather gross assumption.

Two weeks will entice a certain percentage of those that left to take the offer and try the game *at all*. Four weeks would simply entice a higher percentage, getting a higher overall turnaround.

It's not rocket science.