So 1.0 owners have to start paying the monthly fee immediately?

[Alerith]

I have no argument, so I'll just post a picture.

[ZakarnRosewood]

Not sure if it was mentioned already (cant find the source) but there will be another "Welcome Back" campaign at the start of ARR for all current account holders.

"Please look forward to it"

[SkyeWindbinder]

You continue to measure the perks to yourself, which is fallacious. You're here, which means you're already hooked, like pretty much everyone else here. Those perks have to be measured with people that think that FFXIV was pretty much the worst MMORPG of the history of the genre.

The message they're sending with a "welcome back" campaign is "hey, come back and try the expansion/evolution of the old FFXIV", which is really not the best message to send to those that thought that the old FFXIV sucked.

Giving exactly the same stuff you give people when they buy a new MMO (game + one month) sends an entirely different and much stronger message: "hey, come and try this entirely new game, that we're giving you for free because we screwed up with the previous one. We're aware of that, so we scrapped it completely and we're giving you a new game to make it up".

Different message, different effect.

Well, isn't "measuring the perks to yourself" exactly what you're doing? I mean, let's face it, there are a lot of people who believe that a two week welcome back campaign is enough. In fact, the only one complaining about the length of the free trial for those who already own 1.0 is... well... you. I'm not trying to belittle your stance on the situation, but there are hardly a lot of people complaining about the length of weeks 1.0 owners have to try out the game.

As for people who aren't "hooked", well, as I said, they already get the game for free. And they get a good length for a free trial. They have a pretty good deal. I don't think SE is doing bad, I really don't. Let's face it, we'd all want more. But everyone is getting a lot as it is. I think the statement SE is making with what they are offering is pretty strong as-is. And let's face it; two more weeks of free time really isn't going to make much of a difference at all. It will give people coming in who definitely plan on playing the game two extra weeks before they have to pay the subscription fee. It also means that those who are not going to play the game get two less weeks of free time with it before they have to eventually move on to something that really interests them enough to pay a sub fee for it. I think it works well, to be honest.

[Abriael]

I have no argument, so I'll just post a picture.

You're right, you have no argument. And you missed the point.

Well, isn't "measuring the perks to yourself" exactly what you're doing?

Nothing of the sort. I don't need any perks to be hooked. I already have the PS3 version preordered.

I'm measuring the perks to what I believe is the standpoint of people that thought FFXIV sucked, and for that reason quit the game and (at least until now) never looked back.

That's the kind of people SE needs to work to bring back, and that's most probably (and unfortunately) the vast majority of the 800,000 people that initially bought FFXIV.

I mean, let's face it, there are a lot of people who believe that a two week welcome back campaign is enough. In fact, the only one complaining about the length of the free trial for those who already own 1.0 is... well... you.

You have very selective reading.

As for people who aren't "hooked", well, as I said, they already get the game for free. And they get a good length for a free trial. They have a pretty good deal.

A lot of MMORPGs out there give "pretty good deals". Those MMORPGs also don't have "sequel of one of the worst MMOs in the genre's history" on their business card.

The differendce between a "pretty good deal" and a "great deal" can mean several tens of thousands of players.

Personally, I know three people already in my circle of friends that aren't going to come back because two weeks aren't enough to pull them back in. Like many they previously believed they were going to get a month, and they had some interest in returning and give the game another chance, but for two weeks they don't think it's worth trying.

By the law of big numbers, they aren't the only ones.

Again, Square Enix put itself in a very precarious situation with 1.0. "Pretty good" is plenty for me, for you, for most people on this forum, and for a lot of people, but for many it won't cut it.

[Alhanelem]

Nothing of the sort. I don't need any perks to be hooked. I already have the PS3 version preordered.

That's absolutely what you're doing. The fact you already bought it doesn't mean you aren't measuring the perks.

A lot of MMORPGs out there give "pretty good deals". Those MMORPGs also don't have "sequel of one of the worst MMOs in the genre's history" on their business card.

ARR isn't a sequel.

Also there are other games that have died and come back. At least one of them didn't need to give half of what SE is giving in order to make its return.

Here's whats going to happen. The game is going to come out. 99% of us are going to enjoy what free time we're being given. A month later, everyone including new players are off their free trials. Everyone moves on with their lives. In the end, the overall impact is negligible at best. By the end of the first two weeks pretty much everyone should have already made their decisions. two months later, a year later, the game will do however well it's doing and it will have little to nothing to do with the length of the free period.

SE isn't giving us a pretty good deal. they're giving us an amazing deal. They have treated their existing players with great respect and generosity. And basically everyone who has accepted that generosity now has a reduced subscription cost for life among other things. That in itself goes beyond "pretty good deal" to me.

[Abriael]

That's absolutely what you're doing. The fact you already bought it doesn't mean you aren't measuring the perks.

I'm measuring the perks, but not to my standard (may want to read a full sentence instead of just the first half, it helps). If I measured them to my standard, ARR would have 10 million players from the get go.

ARR isn't a sequel.

Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Fully so. Even the story is a full fledged sequel of the story in FFXIV. A Realm Reborn fits the definition of "sequel" to a T.

Also there are other games that have died and come back. At least one of them didn't need to give half of what SE is giving in order to make its return.

Really now, care to mention one? The only one that had a situation comparable to FFXIV is Darkfall, and its relaunch has been a pitiful failure. Let's hope ARR doesn't meet the same end.

Here's whats going to happen. The game is going to come out. 99% of us are going to enjoy what free time we're being given. A month later, everyone including new players are off their free trials. Everyone moves on with their lives. In the end, the overall impact is negligible at best. By the end of the first two weeks pretty much everyone should have already made their decisions.

You're completely missing the point, not surprisingly. "99% of us" is irrelevant, we're already in the bag, and we're the minority. "new players" are also not what we're talking about.

What will be impacted the most by this are returning players that quit Final Fantasy XIV. The more perks they receive, the more of them will actually return and *try* the game at all. The less perks, the less they'll be enticed to try the game at all. The less gameplay time SE gives, the lower the percentage of those that left will actually return.

It's simple mathematics, and it's in our (and SE's) best interest for that percentage to be as high as possible.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Nothing of the sort. I don't need any perks to be hooked. I already have the PS3 version preordered.

I'm measuring the perks to what I believe is the standpoint of people that thought FFXIV sucked, and for that reason quit the game and (at least until now) never looked back.

That's the kind of people SE needs to work to bring back, and that's most probably (and unfortunately) the vast majority of the 800,000 people that initially bought FFXIV.

All of which get a free trial AND get the retail version of the game for free. So... what's the problem?

You have very selective reading.

Not at all. Really, you're the only one making a big to-do about this. I know it may seem to you that your opinion is agreed on by some vast majority or significant minority (I wish I knew where you got this idea, lol) but whomever these people are that agree with you are nowhere near as proactive voicing it. I mean, is it really too much for you to believe that maybe this isn't that big a deal to most of the people out there?

A lot of MMORPGs out there give "pretty good deals". Those MMORPGs also don't have "sequel of one of the worst MMOs in the genre's history" on their business card.

I'm sorry, but this isn't going to fly with me either. Whatever 1.0 was in the past, this is almost an entirely different game. It's been re-imagined, revamped, and redone. AND people who've had to go through the "1.0 debacle" get the remade game for free. I mean, really, it seems like you're saying SE owes you something because you didn't like their game. Not really. Yet, you are getting something. A lot of something, to be more precise. Just because you're not getting more doesn't mean SE is not doing the right thing.

The differendce between a "pretty good deal" and a "great deal" can mean several tens of thousands of players.

Then again, it could mean nothing at all. As I said before, two weeks is more than enough time for people to try out the game and decide if they want to pay a sub fee for it.

Personally, I know three people already in my circle of friends that aren't going to come back because two weeks aren't enough to pull them back in. Like many they previously believed they were going to get a month, and they had some interest in returning and give the game another chance, but for two weeks they don't think it's worth trying.

LOL Well, tell you what: If having the game for free and having a two week free trial is not enough to pull them back in, then chances are they weren't going to stay long to begin with. I know, you're going to insist I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt it. A game's strength to pull in new subs should not really depend on such things anyway. Yes, the game has a free trial. If the game not having as big of a free trial isn't enough for you, then chances are you're just looking for more free, not really interested in the game all too much. My bet: Your friends would have gone through the month of free trial and dropped it like a hot potato. Interestingly enough, they are not voicing their opinions on the forums as you are.

By the law of big numbers, they aren't the only ones.

Links to statistics, please. Or else, these could just be called assumptions.

Again, Square Enix put itself in a very precarious situation with 1.0. "Pretty good" is plenty for me, for you, for most people on this forum, and for a lot of people, but for many it won't cut it.

Again, SE is giving out a great deal. For those whom this is not enough for, chances are they weren't gonna stick around anyway. Anyway, how great a game is can hardly be measured by how much they're willing to freely give away.

[Abriael]

All of which get a free trial AND get the retail version of the game for free. So... what's the problem?

The "problem" is that it's quite half-hearted compared to what many expected and to what would be most effective.

Not at all. Really, you're the only one making a big to-do about this. I know it may seem to you that your opinion is agreed on by some vast majority or significant minority (I wish I knew where you got this idea, lol) but whomever these people are that agree with you are nowhere near as proactive voicing it. I mean, is it really too much for you to believe that maybe this isn't that big a deal to most of the people out there?

It doesn't matter how many agree or disagree with my opinion (I sure am not alone, this thread demonstrates it). It's my opinion, and I have full right to express it even if some seem to take personal offense at it (which is ludicrous) and would love to silence me together with any source of mild criticism towards SE's decisions.

I'm sorry, but this isn't going to fly with me either. Whatever 1.0 was in the past, this is almost an entirely different game. It's been re-imagined, revamped, and redone. AND people who've had to go through the "1.0 debacle" get the remade game for free. I mean, really, it seems like you're saying SE owes you something because you didn't like their game. Not really. Yet, you are getting something. A lot of something, to be more precise. Just because you're not getting more doesn't mean SE is not doing the right thing.

What FFXIV: A realm reborn *is* is completely irrelevant to whether people will initially give it a chance or not, because they won't see what it is until they try it. What matters is the perception people have, and there's a crapton of people out there that perceive A Realm Reborn like a mere expansion/evolution of the crappy game (according to them) that XIV was. The problem of discussing this kind of argument in this forum is that people here don't stick their nose out of here enough.

Hanging out in environments different from the most radical fanbase gives you a much clearer outlook on things. And a lot of people around here would need that.

Then again, it could mean nothing at all. As I said before, two weeks is more than enough time for people to try out the game and decide if they want to pay a sub fee for it.

It's simple mathematics. The more you offer, the more effective that offer will be. I'm not even sure what makes you argue against it.

LOL Well, tell you what: If having the game for free and having a two week free trial is not enough to pull them back in, then chances are they weren't going to stay long to begin with. I know, you're going to insist I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt it. A game's strength to pull in new subs should not really depend on such things anyway.

It doesn't when the game doesn't have a horrible precedent weighing on its reception.

Links to statistics, please. Or else, these could just be called assumptions.

There's no need to link to any statistic. Those people exist, which means that by the law of big numbers more like them exist within the 800,000 people that played 1.0.
If you're gonna argue that I happen to randomly know the only ones, sorry, but I'm gonna laugh.

Again, SE is giving out a great deal. For those whom this is not enough for, chances are they weren't gonna stick around anyway. Anyway, how great a game is can hardly be measured by how much they're willing to freely give away.

"Chances are" doesn't make a solid argument. How much they're willing to freely give away measures how many people will actually give the great game a chance.

[ZakarnRosewood]

And now for something completely different.

[SkyeWindbinder]

The "problem" is that it's quite half-hearted compared to what many expected and to what would be most effective.

Half-hearted? Hardly. It seems more to me that you're just disappointed you're not getting more free. I know, I know, you're going to claim you're not, it's all enough for you, you've reserved the PS3 version, yadda yadda... But the truth of it is, you're not judging SE by the standards of some vast number of people. You're judging them by your standards and your ideals. And that is reinforced by the fact that you seem to be the only one making this much a big deal about it. I don't think there's anything "half-hearted" about SE's offerings at all.

It doesn't matter how many agree or disagree with my opinion (I sure am not alone, this thread demonstrates it). It's my opinion, and I have full right to express it even if some seem to take personal offense at it (which is ludicrous).

I don't think anyone's "taking offense" at your opinion (at least the vast majority of people who disagree with you don't.) I think people are just amazed some of the claims you are making. As if SE is doing a "half-hearted" job because people who get the game for free don't have an extra 14 days before they begin playing. Now that's what is ludicrous in my eyes, especially considering everything SE is offering so far. And sure, you get the odd person who agrees with you, like the person who actually declared they were rage-quitting the thread and leaving in a huff, or even me, I sometimes agree with you. But on this issue, you seem to be the only one so far who thinks this is really a big deal or somehow damaging for SE. I (and many others) am inclined to disagree. The ball is in your court to prove how the lack of an extra 14 days of playing for people who get a free game will hurt SE. That's all I'm saying, I'm no implying you don't have a "right" to express your opinion or anything. lol

What FFXIV: A realm reborn *is* is completely irrelevant. What matters is the perception people have, and there's a crapton of people out there that perceive A Realm Reborn like a mere expansion/evolution of the crappy game (according to them) that XIV was. The problem of discussing this kind of argument in this forum is that people here don't stick their nose out of here enough.

And then there are people here who do. The thing is, many of the people who do are not going to agree with you.

If there are people out there who are shying away from the thought of an expansion to ARR because they felt the game as it was before was crappy, then I sincerely doubt that their minds are going to be changed by SE offering 14 more days of free play time for their game. I mean, come on. Let's be serious here, lol. The free trial is to let people decide whether or not they want to invest their time in the game. 2 weeks is enough. An extra 2 weeks most likely will not make a difference. You either want to pay to play the game, or you don't. It's as simple as that.

It's simple mathematics. The more you offer, the more effective that offer will be. I'm not even sure what makes you argue against it.

It's also simple logic that people who decide they're not gonna play the game simply because they get 2 weeks of free play time instead of 4, despite having a nice amount of bonuses, there's a huge chance they were not gonna stick around to continue playing anyway. I mean, there's "grass is green", and there's "water is wet", and then there's that. (shrug)

It doesn't when the game doesn't have a horrible precedent weighing on its reception.

Once again, SE does not really owe you anything because you didn't like their game. Also, they're offering you a lot anyway. So... yeah.

There's no need to link of any statistic. Those people exist, which means that by the law of big numbers more like them exist within the 800,000 people that played 1.0.
If you're gonna argue that I happen to randomly know the only ones, sorry, but I'm gonna laugh.

So, basically, your argument is "These people exist because I say they do! And if you disagree, I'm just gonna lol at you!"

...um, Abriael? Who are the people who hired you to be a journalist? My six year old nephew might want a job. LOL

Ah, you know I kid. Anyway, in all seriousness, if you don't have the sttistics to back up your argument after making such claims, then you have no argument. I mean, that's pre-school journaism knowledge, Abriael. Come on.

"Chances are" doesn't make a solid argument. How much they're willing to freely give away measures how many people will actually give the great game a chance.

lol It makes a better argument than saying that SE is being "half-hearted" in their generosity by offering "only 2 weeks" of free time to people who get the entire game for freaking free. But then again, that's just mho.