1.0 Ul'dahn story arc

[Catapult]

Question for Catapult Specifically: You've always mentioned that someone in this story arc specifically said Thancred's visit was in 1562. Where was this? Was it the Seranelien thing you mentioned already? Because that alone doesn't specify that a chunk of time didn't exist between the Keeper's fall and their arrival in Ul'dah.

A very good question. I admit for a long time, it was a hunch fuelled by the physical transition of Khrimm and Ascilia from pre-puberty children into fully matured adults, but I think I finally found my proof in the Level 20 Goldsmith quest, specifically some of the NPC banter.

Count yourself lucky that you were not here some ten years ago, to suffer the strife which engulfed Eshtaime's Aesthetics.
In our darkest hour, there was a very real danger that the Order of Nald'thal would seize our name and assets.

Additional Context:

• I would conclude that the involvement of the Order of Nald'thal would be in response to the loss of Warburton's corpse, which they had acquired at great expense, and a desire for compensation.
• Throughout the goldsmith story arc, you learn of how Nielle's father became deposed as guildmaster following a fallout with Lord Lolorito.
• Given that Lolorito guards Heartstrike like a man possessed, its theft and subsequent damage would be one of the chief things that could truly frustrate the owner of Esthaimes.
• In the German text, it speaks of a "good ten years ago". So we're talking on the more lengthy end of ten years rather than the shorter end.
• Now, given that in the Ul'dah story arc Niellefresne is at the peak of his prominence and popularity, we must assume that it takes place before this event that was the likely trigger for the deposition of Nielle's father as guildmaster.

Getting back on to the other side of the argument, if we assume that the events of the Ul'dah story arc occurred after the fall of the keeper (ten years ago), allowing Ascilia to have borne witness to it together with Warburton and bear the message back to his Order, and if we agree that the events unfolded before Esthaime's darkest hour (ten years ago) in order to facilitate Nielle's level of personal influence, then the Ul'dah story arc must have occured no more or less than ten years ago - 1562.

[HiirNoivl]

It would have had to have been soon too...

Of course this also meant that the Echo trigger had to have been after the actual fall of the Keeper too, by days at least if you can imagine trying to go from Silvertear Lake to Ul'dah would have taken a bit of time. When your echo occurs, Warburton and Ascilia have already arrived. D=

So if it wasn't the exact moment of the Keeper's fall to trigger the echo... then what was it?

[Catapult]

It would have had to have been soon too...

Of course this also meant that the Echo trigger had to have been after the actual fall of the Keeper too, by days at least if you can imagine trying to go from Silvertear Lake to Ul'dah would have taken a bit of time. When your echo occurs, Warburton and Ascilia have already arrived. D=

So if it wasn't the exact moment of the Keeper's fall to trigger the echo... then what was it?

Is it even possible to travel back further in time than when the keeper fell?

Were the starshowers in the three story arcs after-shocks?

Getting deep now...

[Anonymoose]

Is it even possible to travel back further in time than when the keeper fell?

We'd have to be, or at least cutting it very close, provided that it was both the same horn as in Lominsa and you're right about the timing, yes? I don't know. I'm becoming rather frustrated with how intangible these three introductions are and am going to focus elsewhere for today. As far as I can tell, we were just told some short stories that have few, if any, player-accessible anchors in time and are the lore equivalent of having a word on the tip of your tongue - they're almost meaningful as they stand.

[Mjollnir]

Is there any reason not to think that the three stories start at the same time and the star-showers witnessed at the start/end of all three Echoes aren't the same pair of events?

I had assumed (yeah, dangerous, I know) that Y'shtola, Thancred and Yda/Papalymo's mission started simultaneously.

[Anonymoose]

Is there any reason not to think that the three stories start at the same time and the star-showers witnessed at the start/end of all three Echoes aren't the same pair of events?

It's very ambiguous. There's not much reason not to assume this, and then again there's not much reason to assume it. In tangible terms, if the horn in Ul'dah is the same horn from Lominsa, then they cannot take place at the same time, case closed. If not, well, let's think in terms of star-showers.

People started awakening to the Echo ten years ago, although there's been a lull up until the last few months as of 1572. Enough people have claimed to see a star-shower that it's one of the few things the Path of the Twelve has connected to the phenomenon. In the story arcs, we see two in each - one that is our personal awakening to the Echo (that no one else seems to see, and yet some instanced-NPCs still mention, much to my confusion)... and one that is rather public and witnessed by the Archon arc-partner.

Occam's Razor would say that all three public star-showers were the same one event witnessed from different angles, and that every awakening begins with an anachronistic flash of this event.

Whether or not that's the case, though, is incredibly hard to discern from what information we have.

EDIT: Just for fun, I'm going to pull up all in-game visuals of the star-shower and triangulate its position based on player vantage point... if we're going to assume they were all the same star-shower, we'll at least need it to hold up to being in the same place. (See? This is why I love this forum. No matter how motivated I am or how much I think I know, you guys always give me ideas...)

[Catapult]

EDIT: Just for fun, I'm going to pull up all in-game visuals of the star-shower and triangulate its position based on player vantage point... if we're going to assume they were all the same star-shower, we'll at least need it to hold up to being in the same place. (See? This is why I love this forum. No matter how motivated I am or how much I think I know, you guys always give me ideas...)

Unless, of course, they were like the aftershocks of an earthquake. One major rupture in the crust triggers off a bunch of other smaller ruptures that occur over the following few weeks to months.

Is there any reason not to think that the three stories start at the same time and the star-showers witnessed at the start/end of all three Echoes aren't the same pair of events?

I had assumed (yeah, dangerous, I know) that Y'shtola, Thancred and Yda/Papalymo's mission started simultaneously.

A very good reason to assume this is the reactions of our archons. If they are sufficiently seperated in time, you would expect only one of them to be shocked by the presence and use of the echo, who could then have informed their colleagues accordingly. But rather, they are all rather lost for words.


Unless, of course... ok, tangent time. Only one of the story arcs ever actually happened. Explicitly, the one you chose to begin the game in while the others experienced non-events. Maybe we're not supposed to tie the three stories together too tightly.

[Anonymoose]

Unless, of course, they were like the aftershocks of an earthquake. One major rupture in the crust triggers off a bunch of other smaller ruptures that occur over the following few weeks to months.

I'd find this likely if the star-shower seemed like more of a natural event. The way it ties directly into a planet-consciousness and the way it appears and moves says purposeful to me, for some reason.

A very good reason to assume this is the reactions of our archons. If they are sufficiently seperated in time, you would expect only one of them to be shocked by the presence and use of the echo, who could then have informed their colleagues accordingly. But rather, they are all rather lost for words.

And yet Thancred seems to know to run outside and look for the star-shower... /facedesks sadly

Maybe we're not supposed to tie the three stories together too tightly.

I would be...

...disappointed.

[Catapult]

And yet Thancred seems to know to run outside and look for the star-shower... /facedesks sadly

I admit this is the bit that has been bugging me. However, think of it this way.
As with Papalymo and Y'shtola, they all seem to know of the echo and the significance of the starshower, but are completely unaware that it has sounded as such. Or as I prefer to think of it, unleashed, just like the primals were from the fall of the keeper.

Cue more discussions about aether.

[Mjollnir]

Just for fun, I'm going to pull up all in-game visuals of the star-shower and triangulate its position based on player vantage point...

LOL this has been in the back of my mind to do for the last couple of weeks because of the board, but I've been busy doing.. the other...

Unless, of course... ok, tangent time. Only one of the story arcs ever actually happened. Explicitly, the one you chose to begin the game in while the others experienced non-events. Maybe we're not supposed to tie the three stories together too tightly.

I hadn't considered this, but I would actually be happy enough if it were the case!

And yet Thancred seems to know to run outside and look for the star-shower... /facedesks sadly

Maybe the starshower is caused by dragging one of the Circle of Knowing through an Echo within an Echo. Maybe... Maybe... Not enough info to work this out. Is there?