A letter to Square

[Abriael]

It seems more arrogant to nit-pick at GameTrailers in thinking they are speaking for "everyone" and ignoring the main highlights of the video.

Not when the "main highlights" are obvious things that you can find just by reading any forum (and not true for "the fans" anyway, as there's no way to poll them reliably).

[Xeonerable]

Not when the "main highlights" are obvious things that you can find just by reading any forum (and not true for "the fans" anyway, as there's no way to poll them reliably).

Well fans of a series tend to be fans of it for mostly the same reasons right?
So if these are obvious things you can find on any forum they are basically repeating something that most people feel anyway then?

[Abriael]

Well fans of a series tend to be fans of it for mostly the same reasons right?
So if these are obvious things you can find on any forum they are basically repeating something that most people feel anyway then?

Not really. Forums aren't a valid representation of what the real general demographic wants. Poll a different demographic (for instance magazine reasders) and you'll get entirely different results.

They're a representation of a very specific demographic (people that go on the internet and feel like chatting about games on forums, and on the western internet at that, since in Japanese forums you'll find entirely different viewpoints), and it has a specifically negative slant, as many are more likely to express negativity in written form than positivity (IE people that have something to complain about are much more likely to write about it that people that are happy about a product). Which is why the internet is becoming a cesspit of negativity and hate and game journalism is following suit (even when hidden behind the "concern" facade of "letters" like this).

You have it in your signature, so I'm pretty sure you can see it as well.

So basing yourself on forums, or even just "the internet" (provided that there is a way to find an actual consensus on "the internet", and there really isn't) to find a representation of what "The fans" want is flawed at best, ignorant at worst.

People, journalists included, should only talk for themselves. Not for "the fans" or "the majority". That's trying to find a validation for their own opinions that actually does not exist.

They also somehow got the impression WE NEED MOAR LIGHTNING SO LETS MAKE ANOTHER ONE LOL

Always amazed to see that some still don't understand why they make "moar lightning".

[SkyeWindbinder]

Always amazed to see that some still don't understand why they make "moar lightning".

To be honest, I really don't understand either, lol. What's with the "Lightning flood" anyway?

[Abriael]

To be honest, I really don't understand either, lol. What's with the "Lightning flood" anyway?

For the same reason why every other developer in the world continues churning out sequels of their games. A lot of the work behind them (from character design to actual assets) is already done, so the cost is very low compared to a full fledged production, and while a sequel of the lightning saga may sell less than a full fledged new final fantasy, it's a low cost/low risk/quick turnaround operation that brings easy cash in the coffers.

That cash can be used to finance more ambitious and high-risk project, like luminous/agni's philosophy for instance, or new full fledged games, of Final Fantasy XIV:ARR (that is most definitely a high cost/risk project).

Churning out a lot of low cost/risk projects to make the money for the high cost/risk ones is pretty much the only way to survive in the game industry now.

[SkyeWindbinder]

For the same reason why every other developer in the world continues churning out sequels of their games. A lot of the work behind them (from character design to actual assets) is already done, so the cost is very low compared to a full fledged production, and while a sequel of the lightning saga may sell less than a full fledged new final fantasy, it's a low cost/low risk/quick turnaround operation that brings easy cash in the coffers.

That cash can be used to finance more ambitious and high-risk project, like luminous/agni's philosophy for instance, or new full fledged games, of Final Fantasy XIV:ARR (that is most definitely a high cost/risk project).

Churning out a lot of low cost/risk projects to make the money for the high cost/risk ones is pretty much the only way to survive in the game industry now.

Oh, I see. So that explains the cell-phone game they just came out with a few months ago. And the multi-handheld remakes of the old ones.

[Abriael]

Oh, I see. So that explains the cell-phone game they just came out with a few months ago. And the multi-handheld remakes of the old ones.

Yep. Cheap high-margin projects are the lifeblood of the big ones. People on the internet crap on them, but they don't know that they're what helps bringing them the games they actually love.

[Xeonerable]

Not really. Forums aren't a valid representation of what the real general demographic wants. Poll a different demographic (for instance magazine readers) and you'll get entirely different results.

So basing yourself on forums, or even just "the internet" (provided that there is a way to find an actual consensus on "the internet", and there really isn't) to find a representation of what "The fans" want is flawed at best, ignorant at worst.

People, journalists included, should only talk for themselves. Not for "the fans" or "the majority". That's trying to find a validation for their own opinions that actually does not exist.

Considering the demographic in this matter is a video gaming one, which relies on technology to function, it might be a safe assumption that most of them have internet access these days. So using a forum or the internet to gather opinion might not be entirely off-base.

However I think you are misunderstanding the GameTrailers video as speaking on behalf of the entire fan-base when it isn't. The demographic in question here are the people who are becoming disheartened with Square Enix, and I think the company's latest blunders is reflective of that. (Poor decisions, and even Wada is resigning.) So the "majority" in this demographic probably do share this opinion and as you said the points in GameTrailers' video are "obvious things that can be found on any forum." If we know one thing, it is that people will flock to forums to express their disappointment and those are usually the most vocal. It must be a growing demographic as it appears to be more common.

They're a representation of a very specific demographic (people that go on the internet and feel like chatting about games on forums, and on the western internet at that, since in Japanese forums you'll find entirely different viewpoints), and it has a specifically negative slant, as many are more likely to express negativity in written form than positivity (IE people that have something to complain about are much more likely to write about it that people that are happy about a product). Which is why the internet is becoming a cesspit of negativity and hate and game journalism is following suit (even when hidden behind the "concern" facade of "letters" like this).

You have it in your signature, so I'm pretty sure you can see it as well.

Call me crazy but I find it all ironic to what your first post was.

That was the very definition of pretentious and condescending.

Patronizing with no details as to why. Seeing your other posts in this thread and the tone of your responses... are you being part of the problem that you state?

[Abriael]

Considering the demographic in this matter is a video gaming one, which relies on technology to function, it might be a safe assumption that most of them have internet access these days. So using a forum or the internet to gather opinion might not be entirely off-base.

One. Not all video gamers use the internet.
Two. Not all video gamers that use the internet use forums.
Three. Not all video gamers that use the internet and use forums do so in western forums.
Four. Not all video games that use the internet and forums do so to express sweeping opinions on the development plans of a specific company.

If you look at the numbers of even the biggest gaming forums out there, apply the conditions above and then compare them with the sales of even a mediocre AAA games, you can easily see that people that go to forums for this relevant purpose and even more so people that post regularly are a ridiculously small percentage of the total.

It's not even statistically relevant, as you correctly say yourself, as people that go and are very vocal on forums are more often than not the most negative minded, polluting the validity of the statistical pool.

However I think you are misunderstanding the GameTrailers video as speaking on behalf of the entire fan-base when it isn't.

Not really, he clearly talks about what "the fans" want, which he has no way to ascertain or gauge. The fans want many things, and they're no hive mind.

Mind you, even "the fans that are disheartened with SE" are a hive mind or have any kind of unity of intents or demands.

Some game journalists like him just love to paint themselves as the spokesperson of the hive mind, forgetting that such thing doesn't exist.

Patronizing with no details as to why. Seeing your other posts in this thread and the tone of your responses... are you being part of the problem that you state?

I would say I provided plenty details behind my reasoning, and this forum itself is quite a piece of evidence. I seriously doubt many would say it can be considered representative of the total playerbase of the game, pretty much like any forum on the internet.

The difference between me and "The problem" is that I simply don't try to speak for everyone. I have quite a bit of experience, but my opinions are mine, and I don't need to hide behind crutches like "the majority" or "the fanbase" to give them solidity. They speak on their own without the need of made up pseudo-statistics to compound them.

[Xeonerable]

The difference between me and "The problem" is that I simply don't try to speak for everyone. I have quite a bit of experience, but my opinions are mine, and I don't need to hide behind crutches like "the majority" or "the fanbase" to give them solidity. They speak on their own without the need of made up pseudo-statistics to compound them.

...and yet I'm not sure where you are going with any of it.

What I've been saying is that they weren't trying "to speak for everyone."
I can't take you seriously since you started with this "hive mind" thing. lol

Also it took a few bland posts later to find out a minuscule amount of the reason for your comment on the video.