[Loremonger] 1.X Lominsan Story Arc

[Mjollnir]

I believe this is a red herring. It would imply the Gridanian and Ul'dahn Starshowers are also related to ascians, but we have zero evidence this is the case. In fact, we haven't even found an ascian in those story arcs to begin with. The closest we have is a "shadow" attacking Farrimond's unit of Wood Wailers.

So this is the danger that threatened Ul'dah. Only, the shadow of this threat menaces not Ul'dah alone, but all of Eorzea.

You seem to be implying that the Gridanian and Ul'dahn Starshowers are separate events to the Limsan. I disagree. Papalymo says that it's the Echo sounding, implying events have been set in motion (perhaps history repeating itself) that the Circle had been sent to prevent. That event is surely Travanchet's play for the Horn?

Of course he hits you! You were there when everything fell to pieces on him out at the God's Grip. This doesn't need to have anything to do with the Astalicia.

Yup, that was what I was getting at. If Rostnsthal remembers you from 1562 when you first meet (from your perspective) in 1572, it's understandable that he is therefore aware of your Echo ability and doesn't let you know this. He's not such a drunk after all and is manipulating you from the get-go, though presumably his ultimate endgame hasn't been revealed yet.

[Catapult]

The 5th levy issue is easily solved, Moose.

The Seal Rock provisional unit is the core strike team, employed for the purpose of getting the job expertly done with minimal issues.

The fifth levy is cannon fodder.

Ninjas notwithstanding.

So when the tactical unit of the seal rock expedition starts going to hell and most of its members kick the bucket, who do you call in to deal with the fallout? The fifth! They're expendable, of course.

Of course, if you were part of the fifth levy and you survived, you'd have a hell of a story to tell for it.

Now that's what I call a reputation.

[Catapult]

You seem to be implying that the Gridanian and Ul'dahn Starshowers are separate events to the Limsan. I disagree. Papalymo says that it's the Echo sounding, implying events have been set in motion (perhaps history repeating itself) that the Circle had been sent to prevent. That event is surely Travanchet's play for the Horn?

Not quite seperate events - I believe that is still a little ambiguous. But let us turn this on his head and look at it from the Ul'dahn perspective.

The moment Thancred realises you are responsible for pulling him into an echo, he dashes outside.
He is expecting to see something. Something that signifies the echo has sounded. And he sees it indeed.

If you are implying that the starshower is ascian in nature, then you are also implying that the echo itself is ascian in nature.
That is a leap I am not prepared to take, especially given the reveal of Hydaelyn being the entity that tells us to feel, hear and think.

[Anonymoose]

The 5th levy issue is easily solved, Moose.

Actually, now that you mention it, it really is just an issue of ambiguous title, isn't it. Seal Rock Provisional Unit is literally part of their rank (First Squadron, 5th Levy, Seal Rock Unit).

That must have made it super confusing back in 1562.

"What command are you with?"
"First Squadron, 5th Levy."
"The talk of the town one or the why are you even talking to me one?"
"The one who gets shot at a lo-
"Oh..."
"So first one."
"CHECK PLEASE!"

At least this analysis has shown one thing: The switch from Third Squadron to First Squadron shows that Seal Rock is likely in the Straight of Merlthor, but the units who are allowed to actually step foot on it are Lominsan core (Galadion Bay) only.

Well, while you're on a roll... feel free to knock out any of these:

• What is the identify of the Echo ship?
• What is Sthalmann doing there (in civilian clothing)?
• Is it three months before or days before?
• Are the attacks on Sisipu's village (Oschon's Torch) and the 5th Levy separate events, both caused by Emerick, as would be required for my theory?
• How does J'arhll know Y'shtola?
• How does Y'shtola know the back way of the Arcanist Guild?
• Is Y'shtola time traveling, using Archon abilities, or just a kickass conjurer?
• Is the Tablet really gone? (Sthalmann clearly had Merod tell the Sirens that Emerick was at the Arcanist guild so they'd attack it, giving Sthalmann the go-ahead to swipe the tablet, and then he "sacrificed it" to get rid of the serpent. More lies?

And of course, most of these questions are still up for grabs, too... I'll be mulling it all over back at the Moose Lodge.

[Mjollnir]

One you might be able to clear up for me Mooster

H'naanza: As for Seal Rock, might you have learned whence the island came?

Sthalmann: That's what we've been trying to do for the past few months. Unfortunately, matters here in local waters have kept me from visiting the island in person.

H'naanza: Ah, you speak of the stowaways on that passenger ship, yes?

Sthalmann: You mean pirate ship. I locked up the crew for questioning the moment they dropped anchor in the bay. We've been trying to extract a confession from that one-eyed captain of theirs, but so far neither he nor any of his crew seem susceptible to the standard forms of coercion.

H'naanza: But if it was transporting more than simply passengers...that would perhaps go some way to explaining the appearance of the sea serpent...

I mentioned it before, but didn't ask. Any idea as to the identity of these stowaways?

[Catapult]

Ok, I'm going to take a leap of faith here and present a new theory for you to run with or rip to pieces.

The opening cutscene ship is a passenger ship/ferry being utilised by a smuggling operation.
Limsan customs are insanely tight. If you want to get something in to the city (lets say, perhaps a certain tablet), then you will need the assistance of experts at this sort of thing.
That is why there are passengers below decks that you are encouraged to return to. Stahlmann is the smuggler's client and Y'shtola is already on the prowl following the appearance of swallowtail roam.
How does Stahlmann take command? Because it is dire circumstances and he can. In the interest of the ship's survival, he uses his skills to temporarily supercede the captain. Life-threatening situations tend to bring born leaders out of the woodwork.


How does Y'shtola know her way around Maelvan's gate? IIRC, she has an old friend who works there. If I can find the script, I'll edit it into this post.

Edit: Here we are.

You...

I do apologize, but now does not seem to be the best time for heartfelt reuinions. You may not have noticed, but your quaint little custom-house is overrun with stark-raving-mad she-pirates.

It has not escaped by attention. They seek a young pirate named Emerick...though I know not why they imagine him to be here.

A miraculous coincidence indeed, for I seek the same man.
Ah, but you may put your worries aside, for a pirate I am not. I wish only to speak with this Emerick concerning a certain...shadowless associate.

Shadowless...?
I am afraid I know nothing of the pirate in whom you have all taken such an enthusiastic interest. As first assessor, my only concern is for the safety of the artifact we unearthed on Seal Rock. Though I plainly cannot assist you in your investigation, I appeal to your better self to aid me until these vile interlopers have left my guild.

An artifact? Of what manner?

A stone tablet, covered with the letters or runes of a language far older than any found in our archives. We have been attempting to decipher it for a sennight's space, and believe it may reveal more regarding the treasure that your quarry and his Kraken brethren are rumoured to have stolen.

Ah yes, Rhotano Bloodcant. Few remain who are versed in this tongue.
"And refrain to suffer fell grammaryes
Wherewith to loose o'erreaching seas..."
Of course... They will use the key to call forth an army...

You can read the tablet!? Tell me, what does the rest say!?

I would be delighted, but it seems these pirates have other plans.
[The player should] Stay close if you value your life.

What I get out of this is that Y'shtola has spent enough time at Maelvan's gate in the past to end up on a first-name-basis with the First Assessor - to the point that she is willing to show her the artefact that she has been entrusted with keeping secure.


Edit Edit:

Of course he hits you! You were there when everything fell to pieces on him out at the God's Grip. This doesn't need to have anything to do with the Astalicia.

Ok, I have to retract this one. I was getting confused between quests and thought you were referring to the Marauder Story Arc. It's in Legends Adrift that he hits you.

That's what bloody outsider like ye get fer talkin' 'eresy in earshot o' me. If the ye-ken-what'd come back from th' abyss, it'd be the legend o' Swallowtail Roam come true, an' me days o' drinkin' an' 'orin'd be gone in a snap o' the' snake's fingers...if 'e'd 'ands, mind ye.
=== Echoey stuff ===
Damn sea serpent... Gods alone know why 'e don't drag them 'Cudas screamin' down t' th' abyss.
Ain't so much as touched them pullers neither now, 'as 'e? An' they be trawlin' out by that stinkin' rock nigh on ev'ry morn.
Oi, you! Sorry fer the, eh...misunderstandin' afore, matey.
By way o' recompense, I 'as a right gen'rous proposition fer ye-if ye'd be so good as t' gut me a few 'Cudas, I'll make ye a pirate.
Join ol' Rostnstahl an' there'll not be a dog on th' Astalicia that ain't 'eard yer name afore long! What say ye, laddie?
Join Rostnstahl's "crew" (of one)?
AYE!
Talk the talk, but do ye walk the walk? We'll see what ye be made of sooner than later, I reckon. Heh heh heh.

I get the feeling you both will want to analyse this a bit more, specifically the pre-echo bit. But it looks like he hits you because you reminded him about that blasted serpent more than anything else.

[Mjollnir]

See, I read the J'arrhl/Y'shtola exchange as:

"You..." (accusatory and shocked tone)
"I do apologize, but now does not seem to be the best time for heartfelt reuinions. You may not have noticed, but your quaint little custom-house is overrun with stark-raving-mad she-pirates." (sarcatic and condescending tone)

I got the feeling that Y'shtola has done something in the past that has really pissed J'arrhl off, but because of Y'shtola's relative power level, J'arrhl had been unable to stop her. I was hoping that would be explained by the end of the story arc, but currently it's in my pile of LL loose ends^^

As for Rostnthal's pre-Echo rant, he's saying that if the Sea Serpent were back, it would mean Swallowtail Roam was back and he would then have cause to pull himself together; at least that's all I get from it.

[Anonymoose]

If you want to get something in to the city (lets say, perhaps a certain tablet), then you will need the assistance of experts at this sort of thing.

As first assessor, my only concern is for the safety of the artifact we unearthed on Seal Rock. <...> A stone tablet, covered with the letters or runes of a language far older than any found in our archives.

Really, I see no evidence that makes the Shapeless Melody echo ship any less likely to be a smuggler ship than my current pirate ship theory, regardless of whether Sthalmann is either part of its crew or undercover on it; let's throw those into the pool as options.

However, this is one of the lines that always convinced me the tablet was nigh on worthless aside from describing how the real treasure works. J'arhil says that the scholarlies (or at least 'Cudas who gave it to the scholaries) unearthed it on Seal Rock personally, so that probably isn't what, if anything, was smuggled.

SO FAR, I've been operating under the assumption that once the cat was out of the bag about Swallowtail Roam and the Sea Serpent, Sthalmann would need to throw everyone off the scent. To do this, he had Merod send the Sirens on a goose chase to the Arcanist Guild to keep Emerick's true location safe while at the same time being able to take possession of an artifact he knew to be worthless from Rhoswen's "crime scene," that way he could say he threw that into the sea and that got rid of the serpent. I thought he just used the whole tablet as a red herring, that way he'd be to thank for the serpent leaving (instead of the pirates), Emerick would be safe, and he'd still have the horn.

Is that less likely?

Similarly, Mjollnir, I'm not sure who, if anyone, the stowaways are. I'd just assumed that in 1562, people thought the Astalicia really was a trade ship, and that if Sthalmann were arresting people on it, they'd have assumed they were stowaways. Sthalmann corrects her pretty fast and says that it's just a pirate ship he's trying to expose, and then she keeps speculating and bringing more rumors into it, which just makes him more angry.

To be honest, I'd thrown out everything she'd said as just being her taking pot shots in the dark. Do you think she could have been right about any of it?

EDIT:
It doesn't add or take away from any of the presented theories, but I did find this that says for sure that it was the Admiral who chose Sthalmann for the position:

Did you see Commodore Sthalmann? He's one of the highest ranking members of the Knights of the Barracuda. They say his fists are like lead and his heart as cold as iron. Why, even his name means “man of steel.” No need to wonder why the Admiral made him his right-hand man.

EDIT 2:
FINALLY finished a 100% functional transcript of Treasures of the Main. As I move it over to Loremonger, I'll update the OP here. I'm still not quite ready to say that there really is a leap in time between Shapeless Melody and Treasures of the Main. I can't say with confidence that Sthalmann is not simply undercover or out of regalia for another reason, because it really does seem like Y'shtola goes straight from the ship at night to arriving at the Wench in the morning... however, from The Player's perspective, they do the exact same thing across TEN YEARS, so who knows?

[Anonymoose]

Can anyone translate this for me?

I've just realized that every single language translates the Sthalmann / H'naanza discussion in an entirely different way.

In English, Sthalmann arrests a one-eyed captain whose passenger ship is really a pirate ship and H'naanza suggests that the sea serpent appeared because this ship carries more than passengers...

You mean pirate ship. I locked up the crew for questioning the moment they dropped anchor in the bay. We've been trying to extract a confession from that one-eyed captain of theirs, but so far neither he nor any of his crew seem susceptible to the standard forms of coercion

In French, Sthalmann arrests Carvallian, but can't find enough evidence on his pirate ship to finally execute him. H'naanza suggests that perhaps it carries more than passengers, explaining why the sea serpent appeared.

Un bateau pirate, oui. Pour pouvoir enfin passer la corde au cou de Carvallain, je l'ai coffré avec tout son équipage, mais nosinterrogatoires n'ont encore rien donné.

A pirate ship, yes. To finally pass the noose around Carvallain's neck, I locked up his whole crew, but our interrogations have given us nothing.

In German, Sthalmann interrogates the crew of a smuggler's ship hoping to get to "their leader," but doesn't get enough out of the crew to lead to him and H'naanza simply wonders why the serpent would appear nearby...

Ah, du meinst das Schmugglerschiff, das als ein normales Fahrgastschiff getarnt ist.Ich hatte gehofft, diesmal ihren Anführer dranzukriegen. Aber obwohl alle Matrosen an Bord in die Mangel genommen wurden, ließ sich kein eindeutiger Hinweis finden, der zu diesem Ganoven geführt hätte.

Ah, you mean the smuggler ship, disguised as a normal passenger ship. I'd hoped to finally apprehend their leader. However, though the entire crew has been thoroughly interrogated, we have no clear evidence leading to this crook.

In Japanese, ... well, I can't read it. Can someone help?

H'naanza:
ああ、船員になりすまして、客船に乗り込んでいたんですってね。

Ahh, ____________________

Sthalmann:
客船を装った密輸船だ。
今度こそ、あの野郎を吊してやれると見込んで 船員を全員、引っ張ったんだが上手くいかん。

It is a smuggler ship posing as a passenger ship.
______________________________________________.

H'naanza
その船ですが、本当ですか？
大海蛇が現れたとかなんとか…

_________________.
The great sea serpent appeared and somehow...

I THINK Sthalmann is admitting that, in Shapeless Melody he disguised himself and snuck aboard a pirate ship in order to obtain evidence against its captain. If this is true, we can write off a lot of the assumptions I made to make the story fit and we can (finally) start restricting the boundaries of speculation.

The thing is... whose ship was he on? English seems to imply the Astalicia, captained by one-eyed Hyllfyr. French flat out says it's Carvallian's ship, so the Misery is implied. German makes no attempt to identify anyone by name - and neither does the Japanese, for that matter, but if we can confirm that Sthalmann is confirming that he was undercover on that ship, then we can field-strip my entire theory and rebuild it.

[Mjollnir]

I wonder how much of the story is different for the different regions, past small nuances of language. It's going to make theorycrafting a royal pain if the different clients relate the game events differently!

Now though, it just seems that the minutiae are causing confusion due to minor oversights, rather than being intricate plot details... Oh woe!

Also, how can The Misery crew be under arrest when, at the end of the conversation, Sthalmann goes off to the battle at Seal Rock which The Misery used as a cover to escape with Emeric and the horn? Silly Frenchies.