The Future of Serious Gamers in ARR

[Zehl]

If any game companies cared about these mythical things you call professional/serious gamers, they would have 1 server and the population that 11 has.

[tymora]

Curiously, I was thinking the same this morning. As I get older, things don't matter as much any more.
15 years ago, I would be a typical "hardcore" player, camping HNMs late at night, keeping to a tight schedule of in-game events.
15 years later (now) with a wife, 2 kids and a full time job, while it would be nice to keep all the "hardcore" elements of a game, there simply isn't enough time to go around anymore.

I do find it sad that MMOs are getting easier, release after release, to the point that I am hand-held all the way to level cap. In perhaps a few more generations, playing MMOs would probably not stimulate your brain more than sitting on the couch watching TV...talk about brain rot.

My preference would be something difficult but not time-consuming. Gone are the days I can sit in front of a computer to finish a 3-hour Dynamis-run.
Perhaps like the dungeon design in Wizardry Online. Even with it's poor graphics, crappy servers, it was one thing they did right. Later dungeons are long but divided into parts which can be finished in smaller time blocks. Once a part is finished, the player gains access to a "teleporter" to the next part.
-> Not everything needs to be instanced. Instanced dungeons can remain small. Huge over-world ones can remain and follow the "part" system. Note that the teleporter can be something like a "shortcut through the walls", a "rope ladder" up a wall instead of something magical every time.

Quests can be difficult by which they require the player to glean information from what the NPC say. I don't want and I don't need a pinpointed location on the map to tell me where to go. It is convenient but it encourages brain rot. Seriously, how many people read quest text nowadays as compared to 15 years ago? Why bother giving places names when all the game does is to plop a pin on your target? Why bother giving a back story to a quest when all the game does is to tell you where to go?
-> FFXI didn't get it right though. There was hardly any information for players to work with. Most quests have to rely on player wikis. That is also bad.


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Unfortunately, the "crowd" looking for easy content = most $$$ for the company. When $$$ calls the shots, oh well...

[Niqote]

A good train of thought, but like others have already said a lot of these concerns are being addressed, also just so you know a dev made a recent post letting us know we will be able to sit at 'npc seats' just like you mentioned ^_^ So look forward to that~!

People seem to be thinking that once 2.0 is released that's it... if there is something we don't like come launch please don't forget things can be changed and patched over and over ^_^

Polite feedback like the OP is just what we need now and into the future.

[tymora]

A good train of thought, but like others have already said a lot of these concerns are being addressed, also just so you know a dev made a recent post letting us know we will be able to sit at 'npc seats' just like you mentioned ^_^ So look forward to that~!

People seem to be thinking that once 2.0 is released that's it... if there is something we don't like come launch please don't forget things can be changed and patched over and over ^_^

Polite feedback like the OP is just what we need now and into the future.

Some things can't be changed even with patches because they might:
1) Require too much work
2) Require change in design philosophy

[Deli]

Some things can't be changed even with patches because they might:
1) Require too much work
2) Require change in design philosophy

They remade everything almost 1.5 times. I don't think anything will be too much work for them...

[Kirito]

They remade everything almost 1.5 times. I don't think anything will be too much work for them...

Well it may be easier for them, but depending on the change it could still be a good deal of work...

[Deli]

but it won't be at "can't be changed" situation as above worried...
it's some amount of work but not that can't-be-changed amount of work 'cus they already changed 1.5 games before...

[Issachar]

If you don't play shooters or MOBAs, then just give up...the age of serious gaming in MMOs is long gone.

[hikoneko]

From SE's point of view, they couldn't rely on hardcore players cuz they've spent a good extra amount of money and time on this game already, they must have to target the majorities in the market which is the casual player because this approach is more flexible and player-friendly, FFXI style is hard to be accepted in this generation due to its time consumption, also look at some of the famous offline games and mmorpgs, a lot of them are going the simple way, almost "brainless" on questing/leveling/crafting/gathering by just clicking or spamming keys. People nowadays are seeking for a relax time and feeling tired to do some brain work in the games during their precious day off or after work.

A lot of people (including myself) still want to go back to the FFXI days, but this is impossible, cuz those players base grow up and most of them have different life-style compare to the FFXI old days, like having a family, full time job, etc. this is fact that we have to accept, sadly. And I don't agree with the point that casual players wouldn't enjoy or be serious as much as hardcore players. Hardcore players are serious not only because they spent more time on the game than the casual ones but also enthusiastic about best quests strategy; obtaining end-game items while everyone dun even know there are something like that in the game; develop best geared linkshell/company, etc. And I think casual players also want to do all those accomplishments but they are just not able to due to the limitations.

Good reading, in general, thanks OP.

[Reynhart]

1 -
All MMOS are designed around the level cap. You absolutly need it to do the quests and the missions.Your point could be valid if only hardcore content requires level cap. A way to counter that is simply to...remove level cap. This way, casual won't have a defined goal they can complain about.


2 -
Relics and equipment in general are not "hard" to get...they're random. Every single powerful item is gained by a small dose of skills and a huge dose of luck. When we see a Relic owner, we all think "Wow ! He has Gungnir ! He's...lucky"
When designing battle, you shouldn't separate casual from hardcore players, but good ones from bad ones.
Regarding your bowling comparison, it's as if the pins randomly dodge the ball. So, even if you play three nights per week for 3 years, a new player can probably best you based of luck. My request, as a "forced-casual" player (Two children take a lot of time :-p) is for the pins to stop dodging.
You can make the lane longer, put more obstacles on it, it's fine with me, cause skills can overcome this.
And complaining on that is admitting "I'm too bad to play this game, please change it"

3 -
Totally agree. Fast paced battles are not a problem.
<Flame-shield ready> I loved FF XIII battle system, because it was fast and tactical at the same time. Knowing when to change paradigm and what/when to cast can change from "losing after ten minutes" to "winning in two"

4 -
In game wiki-guides could really be a good idea. Players could share their knowledge in a more "roleplaying" way.
The problem is, people aren't really fond of roleplaying so they don't care sitting on the ground at a dungeon entrance for hours.

5 -
FFXI was terrible at giving hints, so I think it's far better to give all the informations :-p
But, it could be interesting to adjust a "hint-level". At lowest level "Welcome to FFXI-quest-style in HD" :-p