Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

[Clydey]

A shorter (but not short enough) window does nothing else than create overcamping.

You say 'overcamping', while I say 'creates competition'. I don't want to see an NM pop and be utterly indifferent to its presence.

I read it. I don't think he's going out of his way to be ignorant, as you stated.

He's pretending that I haven't provided an argument for my points. I call that ignorance, particularly when someone who agrees with him has already stated that they understand the view I'm promoting.

[Clydey]

I have proved everything you have said wrong or flawed. At this point you have no other choice but to give up or make up crap like this to avoid actually having a debate with me you know you are going to lose (or already lost).

Yep, you have too much game for me. Your debating skills make Christopher Hitchens look like Bill O'Reilly.

[Betelgeuzah]

He's pretending that I haven't provided an argument for my points. I call that ignorance, particularly when someone who agrees with him has already stated that they understand the view I'm promoting.

You did, then you resorted to "you cant disprove my personal preferences qq" at which point it was pretty clear that you had nothing of value to say. Now you keep trying to squirm your way out but the facts don't change. You haven't given any arguments since you resorted to the "personal opinion" talk. That's all we need to know at this point to see where you are standing. If you have something else to say, say it. Otherwise its simply your personal opinion that is a bad one at that.

[Gracious]

I think Abriael is also making very valid points. He doesn't agree with you and he points out why. You don't agree with him and you point out why. There is no reason to attack him for not agreeing with your viewpoint. The discussion if I read right is 3-5 minute nm pops, seriously?.

[Clydey]

You did, then you resorted to "you cant disprove my personal preferences qq" at which point it was pretty clear that you had nothing of value to say. Now you keep trying to squirm your way out but the facts don't change. You haven't given any arguments since you resorted to the "personal opinion" talk. That's all we need to know at this point to see where you are standing. If you have something else to say, say it. Otherwise its simply your personal opinion that is a bad one at that.

Of course you cannot disprove my personal preferences. That is the whole point. It's a bit like me telling you that it is wrong to enjoy basketball. Use some common sense.

[Clydey]

I think Abriael is also making very valid points. He doesn't agree with you and he points out why. You don't agree with him and you point out why. There is no reason to attack him for not agreeing with your viewpoint. The discussion if I read right is 3-5 minute nm pops, seriously?.

Where did I attack Abriael? He has been nothing but civil, so I have no problem with his approach to the discussion.

[Abriael]

You say 'overcamping', while I say 'creates competition'. I don't want to see an NM pop and be utterly indifferent to its presence.

Overcamping is simply the (undeniable) definition of having too many people camping the same spot. FFXI shown that quite well even on the NMs with the shorter spawn rates. It has the (again, undeniable) effect of drastically reducing the chance to enjoy content especially for those that can't afford camping for hours upon hours and have a less lightning fast connection/lack of latency.

As for the kind of competition it creates, it's one of the most damaging kinds for the quality of a community, as people effectively start to see competitors in a camp as "the enemy", due to the frustration and boredom created by having to wait.

On the other hand, as the effect of the current systems clearly shown in game, with people teaming up on friendly terms even between strangers to share spawns and loot, short timers are definitely conductive to a friendly and tightly knit community even outside of one's usual circle of friends and linkshell.

Which in a MMORPG it's obviously the most advisable option.

He's pretending that I haven't provided an argument for my points. I call that ignorance, particularly when someone who agrees with him has already stated that they understand the view I'm promoting.

You have provided nothing concrete, I'm afraid. You stated opinions, that are hardly valid arguments IMHO.
I respect them, but I think they are damaging to the quality of the community and to most people's enjoyment of the game.

[CrystalWeapon]

Read the thread. I have stated my points over and over. I'm not going to continually repeat myself in order to appease someone who appears entirely incapable of having a civil discussion.

What I'm getting from your posts is that you want the thrill of the hunt back, not knowing exactly when the NM will appear and exactly where it will be. You enjoy the thrill you get when you snag the monster you are going for after hours of painstakingly camping it. You find the new nm's to be bleh since they are just there. You feel it cheapens the value of a nm is if it's constantly there.

On the other side of the fence are the players who do not like to camp. They find it boring, and get more enjoyment from the fight itself over the wait. They do not feel that the camping itself is part of the challenge and get no thrill whatsoever from sitting around camping and claiming. They feel the nm is still the nm regardless of how often he spawns. It's still the same strength regardless of if it appears once a day or once every 5 mins.

You made your point very clear imo. You enjoy the thrill of the hunt. Personally I like Abriael's idea he made in another thread of having an actual hunt. It's hard to address an issue such as this b/c you can either please the majority, or you can try to come to a middleground. Generally when you make a truely fair compromise, both sides are unhappy at the outcome.

[Gracious]

You say 'overcamping', while I say 'creates competition'. I don't want to see an NM pop and be utterly indifferent to its presence.



He's pretending that I haven't provided an argument for my points. I call that ignorance, particularly when someone who agrees with him has already stated that they understand the view I'm promoting.

This is what I mean when I refer to attacking him personally. You don't know he is pretending anything. Also, you imply he is also ignorant when he clearly shows valid points.

[Clydey]

Overcamping is simply the (undeniable) definition of having too many people camping the same spot. FFXI shown that quite well even on the NMs with the shorter spawn rates. It has the (again, undeniable) effect of drastically reducing the chance to enjoy content especially for those that can't afford camping for hours upon hours and have a less lightning fast connection/lack of latency.

As for the kind of competition it creates, it's one of the most damaging kinds for the quality of a community, as people effectively start to see competitors in a camp as "the enemy", due to the frustration and boredom created by having to wait.

On the other hand, as the effect of the current systems clearly shown in game, with people teaming up on friendly terms even between strangers to share spawns and loot, short timers are definitely conductive to a friendly and tightly knit community even outside of one's usual circle of friends and linkshell.

Which in a MMORPG it's obviously the most advisable option.



You have proven nothing, I'm afraid. You stated opinions, that are hardly "evidence".
I respect them, but I think they are damaging to the quality of the community and to many people's enjoyment of the game.

Of course I haven't proven anything. That was never my aim because taste is entirely subjective.

Indulge me for a second. What is your favourite sport?