I sort of wish players could only choose one job.

[KyahAlmasy]

But we don't do it perfectly. (We, the characters in game). If we did, all our skills would critical all the time. All our magic would do the same max damage. But we miss, we get lower damage than optimal, and some get resisted right out.

The truth is, we, even in game have had our failures and hardships. Even if it's not seen by other people/npc. Unless you follow them through the failures as well as successes, you'll never know just how "impressive" they are. And that's why other people/npc's can see us as having nearly no hardship.

follow this guy from time to time. His job is a computer 3d modeler/animator. All this seems awesome and easy. But-

You're referring to inconsequential gameplay, and not the mechanics of the game in which the play is tailored. Our character is perfect because according to the plot they never failed. Canonically they could not experience the same cut-scene over and over again, the NPC's never acknowledge a loss because the game simply operates by letting you rechallenge the quest as if you it were your first time again.

Yep, that part is unrealistic. I fully admit that. But it's also what makes it a game. Not only that, it's the premise of the game. Unless you feel that we shouldn't be playing the adventurers that saved the world in this game, but rather one of the random NPC's around town, this unrealistic, perfect storm of circumstances will have to remain. Again, I'm not saying you should feel immersed. I'm just saying given the conditions presented in the game, someone mastering tons of skills is not out of the realm of possibility. And, hence, has nothing to do with the job system. The conditions that allowed this to happen may be unrealistic and takes the immersion out for you, but the job system is the symptom, not the cause.

To be honest, it's never as blatant as it is when it comes to learning and mastering new jobs. In most cases, there's a conflict that we as a group must surmount even if the odds aren't in our favor. Sometime we fail, and we lose something to the enemy. Or we're taken captive by the Beast tribe. There's an ebb and flow that allows me to enjoy the game despite its tendency to be unrealistic. But after all it's Final Fantasy, right?

But the plot devices for the job quests were so contrived, forced, and usually a product of our character's inexplicable talent to never fail, and always be in the right place at the right time, that I couldn't enjoy it like I wanted to. Could it happen once or twice? Perhaps. But for every single job? Pfft. In that case, once the Golden Saucer arrives we all better get filthy rich.

Though sadly for me that's not even the largest cause to why I feel it takes away from the immersion of the game. It's the improbable possibilities that allow our character to master and excel at every job, even if its described as one that requires years of tutelage and training. Just because something is a possibility, doesn't make it realistic. The "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" concept becomes so apparent that I become really turned off from the story. I'm super duper not interested in watching characters who can do anything and everything because they're just that perfect.

I'd rather see a character take on realistic goals, like dedicating themselves to a job like the others and excelling at it instead of being a master at everything.

2) If they don't allow us to be at the right place at the right time, the truth is we would never become a drg or whm or blm or any of the other jobs. The whole server would have 1 whm, 1 drg, 1 blm, etc. Which, while realistic, makes for a poor experience for the players that are not the whm, drg, blm, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, the events that allow our characters to gain these jobs, alone (While still, improbable.) isn't the issue. It's that our characters are at the right place and right time for every single one of them.

3) Above all. a person in right place at the right time and doesn't fail. That really almost describes every story (book, movie, song, etc) in the world. I highly doubt that you feel almost every story is shallow and contrived. And while I can see why this seems too convenient to be believable, the truth is, for most of these stories, if the right person didn't appear at the right place at the right time, there would have been no story to tell, no game to play.

Firstly, on a occasion characters in stories do fail before they are developed into a wiser and more experienced character capable of taking on a challenge and coming out triumphant while not coming off contrived or forced. Otherwise the characters comes off flat and we find ourselves back to the A Mary Sue or Gary Stu concept.

Which is essentially an overly-idealised character, sometimes the "dream version" of a writer who is so preoccupied with making their character utter perfection they lose sight of everything that makes a fictional character believable - and therefore, enjoyable to read about. Traits include an exotic, uncommon name; unusual hair or eye color and an overall beautiful appearance; powers or exclusive abilities that can overcome any opponent, superbly talented in a wide range of skills (from maths to composing music); and a complete lack of any realistic flaws the reader can relate to. Very rarely is a Sue/Stu aged - they are always young, in their prime, even if they centuries old. They're just... boring. Too perfect. Any challenges in the story are just brushed aside by their amazing skills. And by lord are they tedious. Oftentimes they have a dramatic, unusual, or tragic background, such as being the sole survivor of genocide. A good, common tactic is to give then some intense amnesia so they are completely ignorant of their exceptional history.

As for personality... What personality? Everyone they comes across is charmed by their wit, courage, sympathetic qualities or sad aura. Nobody could possibly hate this little stunner. Even characters who prefer to skulk in the shadows are touched and attracted to their warm, "likeable" nature. If they're not adventuring, rebellious heros, they're an angst-ridden, miserable teenager who's still getting over that one lost love.

Nobody likes Sue/Stu characters.

I appreciate it. But I would like to ask, if possible, that such common ideals like time be not dismissed so easily next time. It is a bit disheartening for someone to say that just because the time you personally spent doesn't make it into the written lore of the permanent world, that it doesn't exist. And hence, time didn't happen. I can understand how it can be perceived to be that way. But that would be the fault of the perceiver, not that world.

Final Fantasy XIV is my game, the only time this sense of impervious perfection makes itself obvious is the idea behind the multiple job function. It is not difficult to level, there is no wow-factor behind it. Our characters are just so lucky, and so powerful that they can do anything and everything with relative ease. It's just a poorly cloaked game mechanic, and for me an eye sore.

[Shurrikhan]

I think I need to bookmark the above post for enjoyable rereading... Done.

And I couldn't agree more.

[Kallera]

I think I need to bookmark the above post for enjoyable rereading... Done.

And I couldn't agree more.

Uninstall the game upon death if you feel the need to inject realism so badly.

[Duelle]

It's the improbable possibilities that allow our character to master and excel at every job, even if its described as one that requires years of tutelage and training. Just because something is a possibility, doesn't make it realistic. The "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" concept becomes so apparent that I become really turned off from the story. I'm super duper not interested in watching characters who can do anything and everything because they're just that perfect.

You have to admit, though, that the leveling process is supposed to mimic the growth in skill in a certain job. The amount of time it takes to level, relative to everything else, is really what takes away from it (changing hats all willy nilly doesn't help, either). Not to say I'm in favor of needless grinds, because I am not.

It should also be noted that in other games you have regular interactions with "mentor" characters that teach you the tricks of the trade when they feel you're ready to learn them. The PLD questline did this quite well, IMO.

Our characters are just so lucky, and so powerful that they can do anything and everything with relative ease. It's just a poorly cloaked game mechanic, and for me an eye sore.

Again, it's easy to ignore the eyesore in a console FF because you don't have a group of players pushing you into certain comps or jobs to finish the game. You don't see people get flamed on forums for finishing FF1 with four black mages or for finishing FFVII with under-leveled characters and not using Cloud or Knights of the Round on the last boss.

[Kallera]

In this thread:

"Damn those Clouds and Squalls surviving impalement by the bad guys! My immersion is RUINED!"

"All Chrono triggered was the end of good storytelling!"

"GENO IS A MARY SUE!!!"

[Molic]

Like I mentioned earlier, the events that allow our characters to gain these jobs, alone (While still, improbable.) isn't the issue. It's that our characters are at the right place and right time for every single one of them. .

Kinda Knit-picking, but somewhere in the lore section of the forums it was said that our character basically experienced everything through the echo or other peoples memories, so they weren't actually there but just reliving someone else's tale. Learning from other people experience and such~~.

I do agree though that having a "super protagonist" does make the story seem unrealistic and leveling all jobs on one character would seem highly unrealistic as it would take a unreasonable amount of time in real life, but its a game and MMO so i kinda just see it has telling the story of the people/npc's of the world and you just happen to be the outside party watching/interacting with it at all parts xD.

[ZakarnRosewood]

wow... really? Now the complaint is coincidence? You wouldn't be much of a hero if you weren't in the right place at the right time. For the sake of an engaging story I would expect to be near the center of the story plots. Who had a better position to experience the story of Braveheart, Campbell or soldier #1143890? You are over thinking this stuff, seriously....

[SwordCoheir]

I sort of wish players could only choose one job.

I know I'm a bit late on the reply, but from my viewpoint being able to change jobs is one of the appealing things about FFXI/FFXIV not to mention beneficial in some respects. For instance as with all MMO's some jobs are favored far more than others, while this is nothing new even to FFXIV, you do run a risk of crippling players ability to actually progress in content simply because they don't have the right job for content, just think how bad it would be for the PLD crew when WAR was the go too tank for a good period of time if they couldn't change jobs without leveling a new character.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be advantages, being able to run through the storyline each time for every job is usually an efficient way to level, however it really becomes droll and more tedious than just grinding a new job to endgame, plus you have to reopen access to content.

If it makes you feel any better however, they are disabling the ability to change jobs within a dungeon/instances.

[KyahAlmasy]

In this thread:

"Damn those Clouds and Squalls surviving impalement by the bad guys! My immersion is RUINED!"

"All Chrono triggered was the end of good storytelling!"

"GENO IS A MARY SUE!!!"

Firstly, Cloud's anatomy is very different than that of a normal human being after being exposed to Jenova cells by Hojo, who also preformed unspeakable experiments on him. And the characters in FF8 were super-soldiers trained by the Garden with very supernatural qualities granted to them through Guardian Forces they've junctioned from a young age. Within the realm of their worlds, these incidents are not "unrealistic" and certainly do not take away from immersing yourself.

Not to mention Cloud and Squall were no where near perfect and have failed numerous times throughout their story before growing and developing into strong protagonists that avail with the help of their friends. Heck, FF8 was all about the power of friendship and teamwork.

I'm not asking for our characters to be merely human, after all we are the heros in this MMO so of course we're going to be stronger, and superior to NPCs. But even Cloud and Squall had their limits, and required the help of others to achieve their goals. Our characters should be no different. Otherwise we're flat and boring.

If you want to read a book where there is no conflict because the protagonist is just so skilled that he shunts it aside and every page is essentially the author fapping his own ego then go ahead.

[Skies]

Seems like you are forgetting about times when we had to run away with our tails between our legs (more literally in my case) from Nael as he was about to annihilate us (such a perfect detail, that same move he uses when we escape through that aetheryte node is a move he uses during the fight ), about the time we only escaped the Amalj'aa by grace of Ifrit, we had even been captured before.
Or how all we could do against Gaius was watch as the investigators of the Circle of Knowing fought him only to have all of us completely blasted away by the Agrias's main cannon.

We are not as perfect as you make we seem to be (we as in the adventurers). And hey, being in the right place at the right time is what makes a person a hero.