ARR and Mac

[Altena]

I do shun Apple however, but more for their decisions in trying to lock down everything and litigate their way through the times.

I am also not a fan of the direction they have been heading since Mr. Jobbs passed away.

The regular MacBook Pro is pretty much the final stamp that is holding onto the older Apple direction. It is currently the only fixable/hardware replacable "all-in-one" that they offer. A lot of the hardware is now glued to the logic board - including the retina screen on the new MacBook Pro.

In my opinion, people that buy an MacBook Pro, or Mac Pro generally want the freedom to be able to replace parts if needed, as they are the more "premium" or "advanced" products that they offer. They are generally the items that a slightly more computer-savy person would buy. The MacBook Air however, I feel is more targeted toward the people that would simply replace a computer/laptop if it no longer worked.

Although they are basically letting the public decide their direction with the current MacBook Pro series.

Do consumers want a fixable, upgradable, product, or a aesthetically pleasing, non-fixable, non-upgradable product?
We see this in the Retina vs. Standard MacBook Pro's, as the standard is an easy product to fix, however the retina is glued in and difficult to fix.

*edit* Just on a side note, I am not making these posts to "convert PC users to Mac" as I don't believe that is right, or possible. I just hope to point out a few things that Apple do, both good and bad, that would help someone decide whether they want to look at using their products.

If you look at both items with an open mind, and an unbiased opinion, the answer is that both have their own place in the market, and that some people do actually benefit from Apple products being the way they are.

I for one used to be PC exclusive, until I started looking into what made Mac OS so great, and later learned from experience that Apple do indeed release quality products for specific areas of use. They do some things better then a PC, but a PC do some things better then a Mac. I believe that to be an undeniable fact.

[ispano]

Since he passed away? It may be worse, but they've been doing that since before he died.

[Altena]

Since he passed away? It may be worse, but they've been doing that since before he died.

If you did a full teardown on any of their products before he passed, most of their components were fixable and upgradable by the user, provided you could source the hardware. The "Genius bar" employees (despite them being a bunch of do-so, unintelligent beings ) could fix nearly any issue on the earlier Macs on the spot (given a few hours depending), whereas now - all of their Macs aside from the regular MacBook Pro has to be sent away for pretty much any hardware issue.

Just looking at the teardowns on iFixit.com would show you this. None of their hardware was "glued in" as such (perhaps the logic board, but the other components weren't).

Since Jobbs passed away, all of their products aside from the regular MacBook Pro and Mac Pro are practically unfixable.

*edit* I will leave it at that though. Once again, I am not trying to convert a PC fanboy to give a Mac a go, I am just trying to highlight both sides of the fence so people can make a slightly more informed decision.

I see my opinion as fairly unbiased as I have had a lot of experience with both PC and Mac products, whereas a lot of the standpoints in this thread are based from one specific side of the market.

[ispano]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

[Altena]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

You have no idea how many drivers when building my most recent system actually tried to slip "McCaffe" and "Norton" on my Windows partition.. A good 3-4 different installers. So many companies on the Windows side are guilty of this also. Even Microsoft try to tack "Bing toolbar" on IE.

I haven't actually experienced any of this on Mac OS personally... If you are talking about Quicktime etc, that is sort of part of the iTunes package.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Again, huh? Youtube does this, and many other websites but once again I have not experienced this with Mac software :/

I want screenshots of this... If you are talking about iPhone apps and what not - they are made by developers, not Apple. The third party dev company are responsible for this.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

Eh, just don't try and get free stuff for nothing and you won't have a problem. Piracy is illegal, and jailbroken devices allow you to use "hacked" software developed by companies that are trying to run a business. Windows does this also - with their genuine advantage system etc.

If anything, Apple is a little more welcoming when having multiple computers. Mac OS as a prime example is legally licensed for up to 3 computers for the cost of the $30 OS (so if you have 3 computers, that is effectively $10 per install).

Windows is technically only licensed for 1 device for $100 (unless it has changed since Win8).

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

Many PC companies are guilty of the exact things you listed.

[ispano]

Yes, many other companies do it to, but others do not. I'm not singling Apple out here.

Also the Apple patent for my first point was hardware that literally stops your phone from being able to make calls, or completely disables music you may be listening to on an iPod.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...g-program.html

On the note of Jailbreaking. Trying to get free stuff? A whole slew of Reasons to Jailbreak have nothing to do with trying to get free stuff. Many people out there want to modify a device the way they wish because it's theirs. Apple doesn't differentiate those people from the very small "I want free stuff hur hur" group of people.

[ispano]

Info on one of the times Apple slipped Safari into the updater, abusing the security update system to push it automatically.

https://windowssecrets.com/patch-wat...ike-it-or-not/

[Altena]

Yes, many other companies do it to, but others do not. I'm not singling Apple out here.

Also the Apple patent for my first point was hardware that literally stops your phone from being able to make calls, or completely disables music you may be listening to on an iPod.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...g-program.html

On the note of Jailbreaking. Trying to get free stuff? A whole slew of Reasons to Jailbreak have nothing to do with trying to get free stuff. Many people out there want to modify a device the way they wish because it's theirs. Apple doesn't differentiate those people from the very small "I want free stuff hur hur" group of people.

That patent is based on a subsidized OS/software that is on an opt-out/trial system. ie You can buy an ad-free version for normal price, or you can get a "free" version of the same software, but you just have to sit through ads.

It is basically to replace "shareware" software, and is not for full retail versions of the products. I think it's a great idea - people get to try the full software out before they financially commit. Google does this with online media (such as Youtube).

As for Jailbreaking - The easiest way to stop piracy is preventative. If you take out the ability to download hacked software, then you are effectively preventing it from happening. The only way to knock out thousands of hacked programs is to knock out the source.

Look at the old P2P programs like Napster. It is a much bigger fight to track down all the citizens using Napster, then it is to take out Napster and prevent people downloading it in the first place - despite people using Napster to share legal files.

[Laraul]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

What programs has Apple slipped into the iTunes install?

What hardware do they lock down?

How do they treat your hardware as their own?

Apple's own comment on jailbreaking mentions none of this. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3743

[ispano]

That patent is based on a subsidized OS/software that is on an opt-out/trial system. ie You can buy an ad-free version for normal price, or you can get a "free" version of the same software, but you just have to sit through ads.

It is basically to replace "shareware" software, and is not for full retail versions of the products. I think it's a great idea - people get to try the full software out before they financially commit. Google does this with online media (such as Youtube).

As for Jailbreaking - The easiest way to stop piracy is preventative. If you take out the ability to download hacked software, then you are effectively preventing it from happening. The only way to knock out thousands of hacked programs is to knock out the source.

Look at the old P2P programs like Napster. It is a much bigger fight to track down all the citizens using Napster, then it is to take out Napster and prevent people downloading it in the first place - despite people using Napster to share legal files.

Preventative. What most people call what they're doing is "treating their customers like criminals" which many companies also do as well. Same goes for the Napster thing, or anything similar. Like the issue with MegaUpload. The companies pushing the case against them want ALL of the data deleted, even if someone has perfectly legal files on there. And of course doesn't want to give them the opportunity to recover them either.

Either way, I see far to many saying everything Apple does is fine and ok, everyone else does this so it's fine, this doesn't affect me so it's fine. Apple's just about the wealthiest entity out there right now, so they have a ton of potential for abuse.