Pipe Dreams: Expanding the healer pool

[Reika]

Alright, I'm throwing myself into the fray and have prepared myself for a sound beating.

I just can't hold it in any longer.

I've only read about half of this thread, but it has raised my ire a considerable degree.

All the pleas for diversity in classes/roles/healers.....

We had diversity at the very beginning of this game. All classes could use cross class skills. This would have allowed me to create my very own version of a dark knight (which was my plan). It would have allowed for an infinite number of playing styles, with each individual player bringing something different to the table based on what skills they'd learned and set. The game would have ended up much less reliant on specific gear, but more reliant on building relationships with people whose playing style fit your needs, and building skills and skillsets that gave you a distinct role or a more varied role.

Now, before you start in on me, I'm not saying that the original version did not have flaws. It most certainly did. However, in my opinion, the class system was not one of them. It was such a fantastic idea, that (as I've heard from friends) the Elder Scrolls Online is going to have a class system that is similar.

All this diversity you're asking for, all the mentions in previous threads about making things more skill based and less based on leet gear, the wishing in vain for a way to distinguish or enhance or balance the jobs, would not occur if the original class system hadn't been heaped in with everything else that was complained about after launch.

*falls off soapbox with Lalafell cuteness*

Discuss ;D

I liked the old system too and did the exact same thing. Had my Dark Knight setup adding some dark thm magic including absorbs to gladiator. Fun times. It could have almost been the equivilant of wow's Class spec system had they tweeked it right. And yea, TES Online is going to use that system, and probably do it right. Because ya know, not every MMO has to have the holy trinity in order to be fun.

But, too bad some people didn't find that to be fun at all and rather everyone's class be exactly the same no matter what they do, and they ended up being pushed into making what 1.0 ended up with. Typical Holy trinity MMO with Final Fantasy in the title, which makes people want to limit it even more than other Typical holy trinity MMO's Because they want it to both mimic XI and take only ideas from FF titles. It cant even be like XI with its multitude of Jobs, because in -Final Fantasy- there is only one tank and one healer, at least to these people.

At least, as long as they dont add any new tanks or healers, some people here will be happy. So we can have a game with 1 viable tank, 1 viable healer, and 20+ different DPS classes. How interesting of a game ARR will be if it ends up like that. /not

[Allesasi]

Hmm, a new healer class ... Chemist
He would be able to pitch support potions to other party members and DoT potions to the enemy (ranged ability). But he can't just pitch the potions at the beginning with level 1. Each potion type need a skill that the chemist need to learn first.

For more information about Chemist see Final Fantasy Tactics

How about Heisenberg Mage. That would make a sick sick compliment to BLM!!!!!

[Altena]

Maybe down the road we can trash the current system and go to straight up jobs. I just don't think the current system will work in ARR but thats just my opinion. There will be way too many ppl bitching I can see it now. Just have jobs and the silly guilds for them and BAM there you go, no more classes. Idk just a thought.

The main point of Classes is to give people a solo option for the jobs that can't solo very effectively. I personally think the system works quite well, as this allows jobs such as LNC, THM, MNK to heal themselves.

[Aion]

Why You want variety for Healer Role? Just because "others" do it?
So let's fail like others MMO

Seriously, WHM don't need another Healer Role, Just because WHM can do his job really well. I don't wanna see this:

LFG 1 Healer AV WHM onry.


No, Please.

wow,its my first time I heard MMO fails because it has different healers....

[Duelle]

I think it'd be a mistake to make a bunch of other healing classes that heal as WELL as White Mage, while also having a utility beyond just the healing.

Considering WHM in XIV has MUCH more utility built in than the White Mage from the console FFs, this is not an accurate assertion to make. Not to mention that I doubt WHM would stay as it was at the end of 1.0, and think it would gain more to round it out.

I wrote the OP with focus on the types of heals for a reason. Hence my saying "you can do whatever with utility". You can give WHM and the other healers different kinds of utility depending on what makes sense for each of them (as I mentioned, CHM could have a snare and a root as opposed to the Magic Evasion Down, Bleed and Sleep spells WHM has access to).

I just think that we don't need different options in terms of "I want to take a Chemist healer today", but options in terms of getting the most out of the classes offered.

That's not exactly what I'm asking for either. What I'm asking for is design where if a guy on CHM shouts for a group you easily take him as your healer as quickly as you would a guy on GRM or WHM. I don't want one becoming the obvious choice or the preferred choice while the others are kicked to the side for being not ideal.

I think paladin should be refocused for stronger healing along with its tanking. I feel like thats the
paradigm it best fills.

Begs to differ.

[Rannie]

Actually one thing I must praise 1.0 for is that all the DDs if geared and played well were pretty much as effective as the others when it came to actual Damage... it's their skills that lead them to be better in certain situations (ie. stun stun stun Chimera MNKs and DRGs for that 17min CC)

Thing is... WHM is a healer and a healer only. SURE you DD whenever you find yourself standing still for more then 5 seconds (gotta love those parties where everyone knows what they are doing) but overall your one job is to save your party from the mobs...and sometimes themselves. Unlike any other heal capable class who carries sword or dagger or book the WHM will be roasted alive if a tank so much as sees red blinking HP... PUGs anyone?

Who else in the FF universe is healer ONLY?
FFXIs Dancer is a fabulous back up healer and is on par with RDMs solo capabilities.
FFXIs SMN is a great buffer, DD and back up healer.
And poor RDMS... sometimes I think the only reason they were forced to heal is because of haste (I played in WotG times btw) SCH - I don't know ifs it's changed these days but those Grey mage wannabes took forever to do anything

FFXIVs BRD can't heal for shite, they are a buffer + DD

The only class I can think off the top of my head as a Main healer is Green Mage, and ultimately they are a traditional debuffer, which if introduced I would imagine they would be incredibly effective at it, more so then all our current very short lived debuffs - making their focus the Boss Mob first and players second...you could assume

So who else could take the same role? Eventually we will get more heal capable classes, so that if you only have 2/4 WHMs in a 24 man raid you can just sub in 2 DNCs and a SMN to help out... but no one will heal as well as a WHM in a Final fantasy universe ^_^

edit: forgot chemist. Eh I talked enough, gosh that would be more expensive then COR was XD

meh i wouldn't say for rdm the reason they were thrust into main healer was haste... I would say due to less down time because of Refresh and Convert and if a rdm played it right and went for refresh equipment and food it would make the time to wait before breaks even less. Unfortunately I was highly skilled at having everything so I wouldn't stay down in healing very long and refresh my mp very quickly >.< Haste just was an added bonus

Edit: By the way. I haven't seen anyone mentioning this but why even bother since a lot of classes and jobs have the ability to put cure on their bar to help heal or heal other people?

[schism]

It will work if they can build on it. It's just weird to me that jobs are really only useful in the endgame for the most part. I just don't get it. So if every job is going to branch off a class how are we going to get another healer or tank? /sigh

The main point of Classes is to give people a solo option for the jobs that can't solo very effectively. I personally think the system works quite well, as this allows jobs such as LNC, THM, MNK to heal themselves.

[Medura]

Blue mage, arcanist, bard, these can be considered healer/support in some ways.

[schism]

Chemist would be sweet but then they run into the whole class/job bs. They wouldn't really need items because it would fall into the whole archer no longer needing ammo ordeal. Just my opinion.

[Elite]

Putting the tank debate to the side, something I see we haven't exactly covered is healers.

As we all know, White Mage has been the sole healing job in Final Fantasy since pretty much the beginning of the series. Others have been introduced or tweaked throughout the years, or healing was spread around to allow better balance (Summoners in FFIX having access to White Magic, Dancers in FFXI being able to heal), but the constant has been White Mage.

Much like with tanks and DPS, we need a healer roster, as funneling all healing into one job is not smart on the long run.

The main problem I see is that White Magic is pretty restrictive, specially when taking the job description for WHM into account. Looking at how healing is done elsewhere and how it is spread about in a way that gameplay varies per class but the result is the same (which means that all healers should be able to perform equally or near equally in all content), we might be able to expand the healer pool in a way that makes sense without taking anything from White Mage.

Looking at how healing is approached in MMORPGs, we know the following types of heals exist:

- "Traditional" heals: Single-target and group heals that have to be cast and heal allies for a set amount.
- HoTs: Heals that take place over time as set values over X seconds (unlike FFXIV's and FFXI's Regen) and are usually instant-cast.
- "Smart" heals: Heals that are set to hit X number of targets, always prioritizing the party members with the lowest HP.
- Heal Auras: Recover a small amount of HP per tick for everyone in range.
- Heal "Zones": Laying an object or marker on the ground, causing anyone that steps in the zone to heal while the zone is active.
- Transfusion Heals: Deal a small amount of damage or hinder the enemy's resources and apply a multiplier that heals party members.
- "Attack" Heals: What would be your regular attack can be used to heal a target party member.

WHM is (and should be) built around traditional heals. You can really add whatever you want for utility and so on, but at the end of the day the job is a healer built around spells that have to be cast and heal for certain amounts. With that in mind, we can have healers that focus on or use the other heal types as part of their arsenal, with a traditional heal somewhere in there as filler.

Some examples of what I'd like to see:

Green Mage: Emphasis on HoT's, with possibly a smart heal. Can do whatever with utility.
Chemist: Emphasis on attack heals (CHM with a pistol or a shotgun that shoots pellets filled with healing salve? ), heal zones and a traditional single-target heal. Can do whatever with utility.
Oracle: Emphasis on transfusion and smart heals, with maybe a HoT. Can do whatever with utility.

Of course, status removal and ability to raise would be available to all healers. Can't have a healer that can't cleanse debuffs and raise the dead, after all.

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Before the "if this wasn't in FFXI we don't want it" brigade comes in to (try to) shut me down, we really should stop to think about mechanics and playstyle differences. Much like tanking, different people are drawn to different types of gameplay for healing. Some may be drawn to spreading HoTs, some may be into smart heals or transfusion heals. I personally hate healing, yet attack heals found their way into my heart to the point I am willing to heal a group if the healer roster has a class built around that mechanic. Just goes to show variety is a good thing, and may help in putting groups together.

Questions, comments, flames, death threats and so on are welcome.

Best post on a real legitimate topic I have seen in a long while!