Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[Reika]

That depends on what ARR is like. I can see GLD/PLD needing a offense boost because of the mostly solo leveling system, and a boost doesnt need to put PLD on the level of a DPS class/job. After the tank rebalancing of Wrath, a tank could be doing 10-15% of the total damage done to any given trash mob or boss, as opposed to their less than 5% during BC, and they simply reduced the agro gain of certain talents to compensate. It increased further in Cataclysm, dunno about MoP. It also helped them to do quests, instead of having to re-spec to dps mode just to quest, you can stay as tank spec.

Trash tanking could very well become as important as trash tanking was in WoW. More than enough dungeon and raid dungeons in WoW required Trash to be tanked by a tank no matter what it was. They didn't all die in less than 15 seconds, and squishes were squishy. Non-tank decides to be the focus of a group of trash inside of a raid instance, dead in 3 seconds. If they are using WoW for insiration as they said, I expect ARR dungeons to feature tanking of every enemy within by a tank as well.

I know I would have been very disapointed if they continued with the AoE tank/Boss tank theme, because the First trash in ICC..... fun times.

[Shougun]

That depends on what ARR is like. I can see GLD/PLD needing a offense boost because of the mostly solo leveling system, and a boost doesnt need to put PLD on the level of a DPS class/job. After the tank rebalancing of Wrath, a tank could be doing 10-15% of the total damage done to any given trash mob or boss, as opposed to their less than 5% during BC, and they simply reduced the agro gain of certain talents to compensate. It increased further in Cataclysm, dunno about MoP. It also helped them to do quests, instead of having to re-spec to dps mode just to quest, you can stay as tank spec.

Trash tanking could very well become as important as trash tanking was in WoW. More than enough dungeon and raid dungeons in WoW required Trash to be tanked by a tank no matter what it was. They didn't all die in less than 15 seconds, and squishes were squishy. Non-tank decides to be the focus of a group of trash inside of a raid instance, dead in 3 seconds. If they are using WoW for insiration as they said, I expect ARR dungeons to feature tanking of every enemy within by a tank as well.

Well WoW grappled with "hybridism" for a while too - I think you said it already but they ended up bringing in different styles of the same pure group (WAR can tank, PLD can tank, Druid can tank (highly dependent..)).

Which is what I am trying to push for.. making characters that are only good at one type of thing in the same category of things kind of sucks ('can only tank trash, can only tank bosses, is super useless out of boss fights'), and that is what the WAR and PLD are in FFXIV 1.0 (imo). Although the spec trees allowed more freedom in WoW such that you could kind of flip your class on its head (when I say more freedom I just mean that they had more then one build style, like DPS or support).

Yoshida could have fixed it already or made it way worse so in beta we can get a taste of the changes and suggest better.. or compliment better

(1+)

[RoninDarkchild]

So people want War to be a better DD while still being one of the top tanks? That doesnt seem very fair. Isnt War capable of tanking anything PLD can? All the DDs have the def of a paper bag. If War becomes a better DD, while you be ok with it not being able to tank anymore?

[Fantasia]

Isnt War capable of tanking anything PLD can?

Hahahahaha

[RoninDarkchild]

Hahahahaha

Only thing I can think of never seeing a war tank is like Khimera or something...

Raven? seen a war tank it
Moogle? seen a war
Garuda? War
Ifrit? War
Miser? War
Story Missions? War
Job quests? War

what am I missing here?
Is there something where War is IMPOSSIBLE to tank?
Serious question here.

[Abriael]

Warrior needs to be weaker than paladin in pure tanking simply because Paladin can ONLY tank, while Warrior has a better damage dealing ability.

If you deal more damage, your defense needs to be weaker. If you have more versatility, that versatility needs to come at a cost, that's pretty much all there is to it.

It's called balance, and MMORPGs need it.

[Fantasia]

Only thing I can think of never seeing a war tank is like Khimera or something...

Raven? seen a war tank it
Moogle? seen a war
Garuda? War
Ifrit? War
Miser? War
Story Missions? War
Job quests? War

what am I missing here?

It may be possible, but it's by no means efficient for a lot of them. WAR on Garoody? I pity the WHM who had to deal with that train-wreck. In fact I healed a WAR for that once and I swore to never do it again... constantly throwing out spells, no times for buffs and such. It's stupid. And I've never seen a WAR tank Coincutter EVER. There may have been some, but I've never seen it... Just seems like a stupid idea.

PLD is an amazing tank, why fix which isn't broken? I guess a lot of people just can't use it right. I'm not a main tank, by any means, I prefer to hide out the back, but I have no problem at all using PLD and don't see why people have such an issue using it... I guess it's because it requires more than spamming the same 2 abilities over and over -.-

[Starlord]

Only thing I can think of never seeing a war tank is like Khimera or something...

Raven? seen a war tank it
Moogle? seen a war
Garuda? War
Ifrit? War
Miser? War
Story Missions? War
Job quests? War

what am I missing here?
Is there something where War is IMPOSSIBLE to tank?
Serious question here.

This is why there needs to be a noticable difference between PLD and WAR, because they are the same practically in terms of Def and there high damage makes them hold hate good. I know PLD can do all those things too.. but with War have High Damage= Faster kills why would people pick PLD over WAR?

[RoninDarkchild]

Im not talking about efficient. My statement was never about which tank can tank easier. Im just saying that is it possible. It "can". It may require more work or a more skilled party, but it can be done.

Is it fair that a job that can tank anything (or nearly everything) that a PLD can, be allowed to have its DD increase to compete with DDs?
Shoudlnt its tanking abilities be reduced then?

Im just not seeing a problem having 2 available tank jobs. :-\
I think Wars power come from it being so well rounded. It can DD, and tank EVERYTHING that regular DDs cannot.

[Judge_Xero]

I hope they can balance WAR vs PLD in 2.0

Paladin was kind of OP compared to Warrior.

Stacking STR + MND Paladin could easily out damage Warrior on single target.
Paladin was overall the best Tank, between superior hate generation as well as versitility, in self heals, damage reduction, it's traits increased Sentinel to 50% damage reduction from anything + increased hate generation.

What could Warrior do? Spike Hate Generation (Antagonize + Collusion), better AOE Damage, and could recover HP, which was only effective when AOEing. Also, Antagonize and Sentinel didn't stack.
The only way a Warror could build hate better than Paladin was if they used Antagonize and Collusion on a fully buffed Spirits Within.

Also....what about Archanist/Summoner? Isn't it suppose to be the Mage Tank?
So maybe Warrior will just remain a buffed up Trash Mob killer, and all these debates will be about

SMN vs PLD?